Editorial about recent FMS Issues (Please Read)
Originally Posted by SideStep
This thread is just fodder for cheerleaders, pro and con. It offers nothing technical for those of us having the problems (I am happy for you if everything is working fine for you, but I do not need to know that)... Just another place for cheerleading or bashing... nothing in here has not already been covered in length in other threads... just another place to jump on the bandwagon... absolute waste of forum resources
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: Arkansas
If you do mods you take the risk. I just got done with my F14/ Fast 90 90 install over the weekend and am so far impressed with the drivability, power, and sound of the cam. I have not gotten on it yet nor have i tuned it but so far i love it. Ive only put about 15 miles on it if that bc its not my daily driver and its been raining. Futral has great customer service and are doing what they can to get the problems taken care of. I would use a futral cam just for the customer service they have provided me.
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
That's exactlly what I was fixing to say. In the whole midst of things, Futral hasn't done anything wrong. If bad cams were sent out, it's Cammotions fault, not Futrals. There's no way for Futral to "test" a camshaft for the proper molecular structure. Anyone who blames Futral is showing their own ignorence. 
Was it the cam or improper installation or oil starvation?
Futral is going to be responsible for getting people new parts because it was his name on it and it was purchased through him. I'm refering to people who say that Futral sucks now because some bad cams were sent out. Once again, someone tell me how that's Allan's fault? How do you look at a cam and tell it is bad? If you can break down a metal alloy chart by looking at a cam, I'll kiss your ***. 90% of people know that Cammotion grinds Allan's cams, which means they should know that there cam will be replaced by Cammotion through Allan. I'm basically saying you cannot place blame directly on Futral. His name shouldn't be brought down because of Cammotions uh oh. I still stick with my above atatement that if you try to directly blame Futral for the problem, your showing your own ignorence. Allan isn't back there with a Lathe grinding cams. Hell I don't even own a single Futral product, so don't think I'm bandwagoning. It's just common sense.
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
How do you look at a cam and tell it is bad?
Keep in mind, I love this cam, and I still recommend it. I continue to be a futral cheerleader even though i feel i may have received an improperly finished cam. Ive since seen cam motion cams that also have a similar texture, and also those that have a perfectly smooth surface. After pulling the heads twice, Im going to stick with a smooth cam from now on.
Originally Posted by SideStep
This thread is just fodder for cheerleaders, pro and con. It offers nothing technical for those of us having the problems (I am happy for you if everything is working fine for you, but I do not need to know that)... Just another place for cheerleading or bashing... nothing in here has not already been covered in length in other threads... just another place to jump on the bandwagon... absolute waste of forum resources
My dislike for Futral is not a secret. (See my transaction with them in the sponsor feedback section). But putting that aside, lets deal with the "fault" part of this. (If there is any fault to be had by them)
I've been a businessman with a flawless record for over 26 years. If I built you a house and your plumbing leaked, the name on the lawsuit and the name out in the public eye would be MINE not my plumber. Now if I was smart I would hire a different plumber, but it would be my "fault" as far as business law is concerned. You can be sure that the first time that happened I would be checking that plumbers work and finding a different plumber if problems continued. Futral is selling FUTRAL cams not wholesaling or distributing cams for xyz company. They have his name on them, he makes the profits from them, he has the ultimate "fault" for any problem with that cam. If his grinder is screwing up then it's ultimately his fault for not checking up on them or using a different grinder.
Beast96Z... I'm sorry if you think I'm ignorant for thinking this way but 26 years of business have taught me this is how it is...fair or not.
Originally Posted by AFTICA
Or when your cam looks like this brand new. 
I do agree with Sidestep. This will quickly escalate into a flame war with nothing good accomplished and should either be locked or moved to the forum feedback section so moderators can keep a close eye on it.
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11 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1
From: Sandwich, IL
I was one step away from pulling the trigger on a FM13 or FM14 cam. I heard all the bad raps lately but that still didn't sway me. I figure if a bad batch of cams got out it's not the end of the world. Mistakes happen and I'm sure the problem has been/is being corrected.
So I called Futural on Monday afternoon. I got a busy signal for about 10 straight minutes and then finally got through. I got the machine instead of a person so I left a message per the instructions. I specifically told them in my message that I was wanting to order a cam but needed some advice on which one to pick. I left my cell phone number (twice).
Two and a half days later and still no phone call. Needless to say, I have decided to buy my cam somewhere else.
So I called Futural on Monday afternoon. I got a busy signal for about 10 straight minutes and then finally got through. I got the machine instead of a person so I left a message per the instructions. I specifically told them in my message that I was wanting to order a cam but needed some advice on which one to pick. I left my cell phone number (twice).
Two and a half days later and still no phone call. Needless to say, I have decided to buy my cam somewhere else.
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Damn, we all need to quit using Windows XP. God only knows how many buggy applications Microsoft puts on the market.. pbbbt..
Get real people, there is a number of things that could cause the problems that these cams are having. Thats why manufacturing facilities have Quality Engineers and Complaint Specialists. They identify problems and try to find out what in their process is causing them and implementing changes to ensure they dont happen. This could be from a wide range of causes, faulty material they are getting, to a machine that needs to be on a shorter pm interval, to personell training.
Give it time, they have proven themselves in the past, and like any major company in any market, they will identify the culprits and fix them. No need to put them on a black list now.
Get real people, there is a number of things that could cause the problems that these cams are having. Thats why manufacturing facilities have Quality Engineers and Complaint Specialists. They identify problems and try to find out what in their process is causing them and implementing changes to ensure they dont happen. This could be from a wide range of causes, faulty material they are getting, to a machine that needs to be on a shorter pm interval, to personell training.
Give it time, they have proven themselves in the past, and like any major company in any market, they will identify the culprits and fix them. No need to put them on a black list now.
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 572
Likes: 0
From: Earth, I hope...
Originally Posted by DrkPhx
Ewww, not good.
I do agree with Sidestep. This will quickly escalate into a flame war with nothing good accomplished and should either be locked or moved to the forum feedback section so moderators can keep a close eye on it.
I do agree with Sidestep. This will quickly escalate into a flame war with nothing good accomplished and should either be locked or moved to the forum feedback section so moderators can keep a close eye on it.
For those of you that may not understand me. The point I was trying to get across it that we need not blow some of this **** up. Yes, theres always going to be cheerleaders, and haters. There have been some good comments and some assnine comments IMO. But, as stated earlier. I wrote this as a editorial. Opinionated. So, lets try to keep it clean.
Ski
did I even make sense of what I just wrote?
Guys.. Futral has commented on this.. check it out.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=465389&page=2
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...=465389&page=2
Originally Posted by AFTICA
I happen to agree with Sidestep. This needs to be moved to sponsor feedback or locked but before it does I have to put in my two cents.
My dislike for Futral is not a secret. (See my transaction with them in the sponsor feedback section). But putting that aside, lets deal with the "fault" part of this. (If there is any fault to be had by them)
I've been a businessman with a flawless record for over 26 years. If I built you a house and your plumbing leaked, the name on the lawsuit and the name out in the public eye would be MINE not my plumber. Now if I was smart I would hire a different plumber, but it would be my "fault" as far as business law is concerned. You can be sure that the first time that happened I would be checking that plumbers work and finding a different plumber if problems continued. Futral is selling FUTRAL cams not wholesaling or distributing cams for xyz company. They have his name on them, he makes the profits from them, he has the ultimate "fault" for any problem with that cam. If his grinder is screwing up then it's ultimately his fault for not checking up on them or using a different grinder.
Beast96Z... I'm sorry if you think I'm ignorant for thinking this way but 26 years of business have taught me this is how it is...fair or not.
My dislike for Futral is not a secret. (See my transaction with them in the sponsor feedback section). But putting that aside, lets deal with the "fault" part of this. (If there is any fault to be had by them)
I've been a businessman with a flawless record for over 26 years. If I built you a house and your plumbing leaked, the name on the lawsuit and the name out in the public eye would be MINE not my plumber. Now if I was smart I would hire a different plumber, but it would be my "fault" as far as business law is concerned. You can be sure that the first time that happened I would be checking that plumbers work and finding a different plumber if problems continued. Futral is selling FUTRAL cams not wholesaling or distributing cams for xyz company. They have his name on them, he makes the profits from them, he has the ultimate "fault" for any problem with that cam. If his grinder is screwing up then it's ultimately his fault for not checking up on them or using a different grinder.
Beast96Z... I'm sorry if you think I'm ignorant for thinking this way but 26 years of business have taught me this is how it is...fair or not.
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
As far as your "bad" plumber, what if he has always been great for you and he was just having a bad day? You don't dump on him for a small mess up. There just bad cores, it happens now and again. Allan and Cammotion are working to get the effect people taken care of. That's all they can do.
"Working to get people taken care of" Sending new cams to people who have destroyed lifters and paid big $ to have that fixed is not taking care of them. If my plumber screwed up and caused flooding damage to your house should I offer you free pipes so you can fix it yourself and leave all the damage up to you? Would that be taking care of the customer?
Originally Posted by AFTICA
We have a bad batch in May of 05 and another in 12/05 (mine and seven others) So that's two bad "plumber" days that we know of.
"Working to get people taken care of" Sending new cams to people who have destroyed lifters and paid big $ to have that fixed is not taking care of them. If my plumber screwed up and caused flooding damage to your house should I offer you free pipes so you can fix it yourself and leave all the damage up to you? Would that be taking care of the customer?
"Working to get people taken care of" Sending new cams to people who have destroyed lifters and paid big $ to have that fixed is not taking care of them. If my plumber screwed up and caused flooding damage to your house should I offer you free pipes so you can fix it yourself and leave all the damage up to you? Would that be taking care of the customer?
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Last I checked there's no warranty on the cam itself, and certainly no warranty on a modified motor. I for one would be happy receiving anything from futral.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
Wow some of you guys have the wrong mind set on this problem. Futral did the R&D on the cam and came up with some specs then has another company grind them. I am not sure why some of you are pointing the finger at Futral and screaming. I am sure they are looking into it and we will see the out come. Would I recommend everyone that was going to buy the F13 cam to run for the hills. Hell no!! Why dont we use this post to get some facts?
1. Were new lifters used with the rebuild?
2. What lifters were used?
3. Were new springs used?
4. What spings were used?
5. What rockers were used?
6. What push rods were used?
7. Did you spec everything or just use a walmart tools?
8. What was the car used for? (Street or Race)
9. How many times did you miss a shift and over rev?
10. Did you install the cam or have a shop install it?
11. Did you run the **** out of it right away or did you run everything in for a few miles?
12. Was the car ran on a dyno? Any valve float?
See so many things need to be answered. I am willing to bet that there was a hardening problem on some cams but the ones that failed may have been installed in people's back yards and then the cars were driven at 9k rpm. I gather this from the facts I have read. Oh thats right no one gave any hard facts or reasons it my have failed. (The last part was just a joke so dont get all bent!!)
1. Were new lifters used with the rebuild?
2. What lifters were used?
3. Were new springs used?
4. What spings were used?
5. What rockers were used?
6. What push rods were used?
7. Did you spec everything or just use a walmart tools?
8. What was the car used for? (Street or Race)
9. How many times did you miss a shift and over rev?
10. Did you install the cam or have a shop install it?
11. Did you run the **** out of it right away or did you run everything in for a few miles?
12. Was the car ran on a dyno? Any valve float?
See so many things need to be answered. I am willing to bet that there was a hardening problem on some cams but the ones that failed may have been installed in people's back yards and then the cars were driven at 9k rpm. I gather this from the facts I have read. Oh thats right no one gave any hard facts or reasons it my have failed. (The last part was just a joke so dont get all bent!!)