Torque coming out of my EARS! (cam change)
#62
Patrick,
Great writeup! Are you going to have any detonation problems with that high DCR on pump in texas heat?
That seems like a lot of DCR with low (relatively) overlap for 93 octane and 28 degrees WOT timing.
I am sure you'll get it tuned spot on but I am curious as to what you think?
Great writeup! Are you going to have any detonation problems with that high DCR on pump in texas heat?
That seems like a lot of DCR with low (relatively) overlap for 93 octane and 28 degrees WOT timing.
I am sure you'll get it tuned spot on but I am curious as to what you think?
#64
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
Funny thing is, the 234/238 114LSA cam was down in power everywhere vs. the 233/235 .644/.598 112LSA TRak cam. At 3000 rpm, it was down 20 rwhp, at 4000 it was down 15, at 5000 rpm it was down 10 and at 6000 it was down 7. By the power peak at 6500, it was still down 5. That TRak cam was a nice cam.
My predictions of this cam vs 234/238 and TRak (rwhp)
2000 rpm: +35, +25
3000 rpm: +30, +10
4000 rpm: +25, +10
5000 rpm: +10, +0
6000 rpm: +4, -3
6500 rpm: +0, -5
My predictions of this cam vs 234/238 and TRak (rwhp)
2000 rpm: +35, +25
3000 rpm: +30, +10
4000 rpm: +25, +10
5000 rpm: +10, +0
6000 rpm: +4, -3
6500 rpm: +0, -5
Damn if it does that well I will be very impressed.
Looking foward to the results.
#65
Originally Posted by CHRISPY
Patrick,
Great writeup! Are you going to have any detonation problems with that high DCR on pump in texas heat?
That seems like a lot of DCR with low (relatively) overlap for 93 octane and 28 degrees WOT timing.
I am sure you'll get it tuned spot on but I am curious as to what you think?
Great writeup! Are you going to have any detonation problems with that high DCR on pump in texas heat?
That seems like a lot of DCR with low (relatively) overlap for 93 octane and 28 degrees WOT timing.
I am sure you'll get it tuned spot on but I am curious as to what you think?
First thing I am doing is the VE tuning. Get this: I've had to add around 20% VE to my numbers up to 2800 rpm. After that, it starts getting closer to my old numbers. Basically that means I'm flowing about 20% more air at lower rpm than I used to. That's torque you can FEEL! Right now I've been doing driveability tuning. Next I'll do WOT VE tuning. After that I'll do the heat soak tuning. Then I'll do WOT tuning one more time. Then it will be time to dyno. After that, track times. Just don't expect them all in the next 2 days, LOL.
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With all of your Torque cam info and AFR head flow chart for 225's plugged into desktop dyno, it shows peak hp @ 519 @6500 and peak torque @ 494 @ 4500 with a very high torque average across the board. Not real life but it all sounds reasonable to me.
#67
Originally Posted by brady346
With all of your Torque cam info and AFR head flow chart for 225's plugged into desktop dyno, it shows peak hp @ 519 @6500 and peak torque @ 494 @ 4500 with a very high torque average across the board. Not real life but it all sounds reasonable to me.
#69
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Patrick, good luck with the new cam! Torque is fun! When are we going to build a stroker - a ton of torque, and very driveable! The bigger motor will only compliment the killer small bore AFRs even more.
Jason
Jason
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I saw when you mentioned this cam in another thread recently and didn't think you'd get it in this soon. I think this will be a great cam for us daily drivers who don't see much track time.
#72
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Pat, why not a diffrent exaust lobe like the T-rak? Just wondering how the softer exaust lobe plays into the equation. Something like a LSK intake, but a XE exaust. Of course keep the .200# similar on the exaust. Like a 223 LSK intake and a 234 XE exaust. .149/.150 would be the .200". This would split the .006" and the .050 by 10-11 degrees, but keep the .200 numbers close.
Last edited by Beast96Z; 04-03-2006 at 11:54 PM.
#73
Originally Posted by Beast96Z
Pat, why not a diffrent exaust lobe like the T-rak? Just wondering how the softer exaust lobe plays into the equation. Something like a LSK intake, but a XE exaust. Of course keep the .200# similar on the exaust. Like a 223 LSK intake and a 234 XE exaust. .149/.150 would be the .200". This would split the .006" and the .050 by 10-11 degrees, but keep the .200 numbers close.
#74
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Originally Posted by gollum
But you do have to overcam (overlap) to get a respectable and cool sounding idle. Your 210/218 cam will make verygood low end torque but the exhaust note will sound boring.
Although I bet these high overlap cams are a bitch to tune and will not pass smog test.
Although I bet these high overlap cams are a bitch to tune and will not pass smog test.
By the same token you can make a stock cam sound choppy if you know how to play with your tune.
BTW, I'm with Patrick on his cam selection. A lot of folks go for peak numbers. They fail to realize what their car is going to be used for. I.E. The max effort H/C car I drive has one use, to go really fast in the 1/4 mile. So, its optimized for that.
Many folks chase that big peak HP number and don't look at area under the curve which is what Patrick, I, and others have been preaching to you for years.
Overlap is power. Many folks are afraid of overlap, but with proper tuning, and the proper ammount of it, it can be your friend. I think many folks would be much happier, and go much faster if they'd tone down their combo.
Let me give you a prime example:
I've got a stock 2002 Z06. If I were going to do a combo for it, I'd want to keep near stock drivability, and not sacrafice the car's comfort in the quest for a couple of peak HP that I'll only use at the dragstrip.
So, I'd look at
AFR 205's
FAST90 / GM90MM TB
Stock exhaust
Crane rockers
For cam selection I'd look at something along the lines of something probably a bit smaller than Patrick's. In fact many of y'all would probably call it a "truck" cam, but it might even have a ton of overlap, and a fairly narrow lobe sep... Keep in mind the peak torque of the Ls1 is around 4800, and the intakes run out around 6200-6500. Yes you can spin them higher. But look at all the dyno sheets and see how they plane out. If you start maximizing area UNDER the curve you'll go faster, even with less peak HP.
Again, its all about what you want to do.
Repeat over and over again... Combination, Combination, combination....
Good work Patrick. Keep us posted.
#75
Originally Posted by Phil99vette
Have you done alot of street driving with this cam? I would almost assume your tune needs to be dead on with 245psi of cranking compression. My old setup made high 220s and didn't have any problems with knock. Let us know how it goes.
Phil
Phil
4000-4800 rpm: 28 degrees
5200-5600 rpm: 27 degrees
6000 rpm: 28 degrees
6400 rpm: 29 degrees
6800 rpm: 30 degrees
My VE tables are highest between 5200-5600, so it makes sense that this is where I'm most vulnerable to detonation. So far so good. I will report back as I get some more numbers.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
#76
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Have you checked to see if it needs that much advance? I'm just wondering if you'll see the same HP with only say 22-24 degrees of advance?
#77
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i dont think he's dyno'd it yet to work on tuning the timing. Pat you've got me thinking about trying to custom tailor my cam for more of a DD type cam. I think the lift is a bit to excessive for me, but somwhere abouts a .610-.615 should do it for me...now for a duration cant wait to see track numbers.
#78
Originally Posted by J-Rod
Have you checked to see if it needs that much advance? I'm just wondering if you'll see the same HP with only say 22-24 degrees of advance?
FWIW, with my TRak Cam and the 234/238 XE-R cam, the motor made more power at 30 degrees than it did at 27, but we're only talking about 2-3 rwhp more. When I ran the Texas Mile, I gained 1.5mph by going from 28 degrees to 30 degrees. When I turned it down to 22 degrees, it lost 5-7 rwhp on the dyno. But with this new cam having so much cylinder pressure, I may find that the motor is happier with less timing. Can't wait to get it on the rollers to find out.
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since chris is asking, how would you make it work on a stock head (ls6) motor? full bolton? id like to get an idea of how you'd work it. emissions arent too much of a concern as lift...615 is the max id like to run.