Head problem - time to tear down
Head problem - time to tear down well, i have had a problem with the car smoking really bad when running it in high rpms... and even if you run the car easy, it'll go through 2 quarts of oil a week... So, i was under the impression that the rings had to be bad, but just to be safe, i did a compression test on saturday.... compressino passed with 180 or so in every cylinder... so, now i guess it has to be something in the heads/valves....
The motor will get dropped outta the car and start to get torn down the 1st of May... however, the guy i'm having do it, says that i should replace all the bearings and piston rings while we're in there.... he's never sent me in a wrong direction with either of my T/A's, so i trust him and what he says i should do.... So here's what i'm asking... is it actually necessary to tear down the shortblock and replace everything?? I've ordered the 232/230 .580/.578 110LSA cam kit from Patriot Performance... that comes with teh cam, .650 springs, locks, and retainers... I guess what he's planning on is having the heads sent out and new valve guides machined ....
so, what do you guys think?? Need to tear down teh shortblock? are we going in the right direction by having the heads machined? What else am i looking at needing? I need to know everything... money is in short supply, so i need to be prepared.
anythign is appreciated! thanks!
The motor will get dropped outta the car and start to get torn down the 1st of May... however, the guy i'm having do it, says that i should replace all the bearings and piston rings while we're in there.... he's never sent me in a wrong direction with either of my T/A's, so i trust him and what he says i should do.... So here's what i'm asking... is it actually necessary to tear down the shortblock and replace everything?? I've ordered the 232/230 .580/.578 110LSA cam kit from Patriot Performance... that comes with teh cam, .650 springs, locks, and retainers... I guess what he's planning on is having the heads sent out and new valve guides machined ....
so, what do you guys think?? Need to tear down teh shortblock? are we going in the right direction by having the heads machined? What else am i looking at needing? I need to know everything... money is in short supply, so i need to be prepared.
anythign is appreciated! thanks!
Last edited by SonofaBish; Apr 24, 2006 at 06:41 AM.
Honesly, I'd geck the easy stuff first - change over your pcv valve to new style (or run a catch can) and change your valve seals. No removal of heads for the above.
Keep it simple first - good compression is a nice start, so don't make things more complicated than they need to be.
Keep it simple first - good compression is a nice start, so don't make things more complicated than they need to be.
the valvetrain is quite noisey.... when i took the car the local 'f-body experts', they first said that all taht noise was normal.... but when the car got warmed up, and all the noise didnt reside, then they said that yes, that wasnt too normal - the motor shouldnt make that much noise...
so i dont konw what to do....
i will see what he says about just checking the valve seals and pcv system, but even with a bad pcv system, would it really go through THAT MUCH OIL?? when we pulled plugs to do the comression test, cylinder #'s 1 and 2 spark plugs were CAKED, and i mean CAKED in oil! A LOT of oil is gettin into he cylinders..
how do i check valveseals?
so i dont konw what to do....
i will see what he says about just checking the valve seals and pcv system, but even with a bad pcv system, would it really go through THAT MUCH OIL?? when we pulled plugs to do the comression test, cylinder #'s 1 and 2 spark plugs were CAKED, and i mean CAKED in oil! A LOT of oil is gettin into he cylinders..
how do i check valveseals?
Last edited by SonofaBish; Apr 24, 2006 at 06:42 AM.
Just look at the seals to see if they are scored or torn, and if they "grip" the valve stem a little.
I admit, that is a lot of oil - just trying to save you some money if possible.
Rooting for you however, hehe.
I admit, that is a lot of oil - just trying to save you some money if possible.
Rooting for you however, hehe.
how do i look at the seals?? do i have to tear the heads off, or just take the vavle covers off? then what
could it possibly be the pcv... i've had guys tell me about the pcv system, but they said that it likely wouldnt cause that much oil usage... and one guy said that he thought that was only in the 99 and down cars... and mine is a '01
could it possibly be the pcv... i've had guys tell me about the pcv system, but they said that it likely wouldnt cause that much oil usage... and one guy said that he thought that was only in the 99 and down cars... and mine is a '01
I would definately do a thorough check of your PVC system before taking your motor out of the car and possibly rebuilding a motor that does need to be rebuilt in the first place. I know if that was my car I would do that FIRST! 
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Ok, well i have half the ppl i consult to (if in fact it is something with the heads/valves) that while i have the motor out and heads off, that i should tear the bottom end down too... new rings and bearings and all... and the other half saying don't bother....
now, let me tell you, i hate to spend all that money on parts/labor when its not needed... but what do you guys think??
any more suggestions? how do i check out the valves... any guides on the PCV system? i don't even know where it is to check it out
now, let me tell you, i hate to spend all that money on parts/labor when its not needed... but what do you guys think??
any more suggestions? how do i check out the valves... any guides on the PCV system? i don't even know where it is to check it out
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Originally Posted by SonofaBish
Ok, well i have half the ppl i consult to (if in fact it is something with the heads/valves) that while i have the motor out and heads off, that i should tear the bottom end down too... new rings and bearings and all... and the other half saying don't bother....
now, let me tell you, i hate to spend all that money on parts/labor when its not needed... but what do you guys think??
any more suggestions? how do i check out the valves... any guides on the PCV system? i don't even know where it is to check it out
now, let me tell you, i hate to spend all that money on parts/labor when its not needed... but what do you guys think??
any more suggestions? how do i check out the valves... any guides on the PCV system? i don't even know where it is to check it out
did it blow a huge cloud of black and blue smoke behind the car? and go through 2 quarts of oil per week?? thats' rediculous...
and... its not a stock tune btw...
one other thing guys...
Right before i got new tires it was a little rainy out and i was screwin around, and one specific instance, i ripped up through first, and ripped it into second and the car started to wheel hop (i think) and i heard two big thuds under the car.... it was later found, that it was actually the exhuast thunking off the axel loop (same night i put on a new exhaust... slamming inot second must have torqued it loose a little) that's now fixed tho.... however, ever since then, the tranny has been really clunky too.... engaging into gears its sorta clunkier than i think it should be... you have to get it just perfect for it to go smooth ... but most of all what bothers me -
if you're going into a turn (parking lot, or making a turn onto a road) that is off camber and bumpy, if you have the clutch in, you can hear and feel (in the shifter) something clunking around... if the clutch is engaged (car in gear) it doesnt clunk around... i don't konw much about manual tranny's, but i've heard theres really not anything in there to be clunking around... what the heck could it be... someone i know said to check the throw-out bearing when i have the motor outta the car?
ANy other ideas???????? its annoying as hell, and i think somethign is wrong... for example, if your just sitting there still in traffic or in teh driveway, if you pull the shifter b/w 1st and second, sometimes its really smooth, and other times it's rough and really clunky and loud.... something is really fudged up!
and... its not a stock tune btw...
one other thing guys...
Right before i got new tires it was a little rainy out and i was screwin around, and one specific instance, i ripped up through first, and ripped it into second and the car started to wheel hop (i think) and i heard two big thuds under the car.... it was later found, that it was actually the exhuast thunking off the axel loop (same night i put on a new exhaust... slamming inot second must have torqued it loose a little) that's now fixed tho.... however, ever since then, the tranny has been really clunky too.... engaging into gears its sorta clunkier than i think it should be... you have to get it just perfect for it to go smooth ... but most of all what bothers me -
if you're going into a turn (parking lot, or making a turn onto a road) that is off camber and bumpy, if you have the clutch in, you can hear and feel (in the shifter) something clunking around... if the clutch is engaged (car in gear) it doesnt clunk around... i don't konw much about manual tranny's, but i've heard theres really not anything in there to be clunking around... what the heck could it be... someone i know said to check the throw-out bearing when i have the motor outta the car?
ANy other ideas???????? its annoying as hell, and i think somethign is wrong... for example, if your just sitting there still in traffic or in teh driveway, if you pull the shifter b/w 1st and second, sometimes its really smooth, and other times it's rough and really clunky and loud.... something is really fudged up!
one different heads are cheaper then fixing yours IMHO
personally stick with a cam with a KNOWN name
youre car was beat on and now has some issues.
with your compression that high you have OIL in the cylinders. that is why its so high and why your burning oil so bad. you have bad seals. guides shouldnt be worn on these motors.
these motors are noisey but yours does sound worse then others. personally change the valve seals then drive it to it dies. theres a motor around the area with more noise then yours and still runs 10s all day long with a small cam and juice
personally stick with a cam with a KNOWN name
youre car was beat on and now has some issues.
with your compression that high you have OIL in the cylinders. that is why its so high and why your burning oil so bad. you have bad seals. guides shouldnt be worn on these motors.
these motors are noisey but yours does sound worse then others. personally change the valve seals then drive it to it dies. theres a motor around the area with more noise then yours and still runs 10s all day long with a small cam and juice
Originally Posted by Quik
one different heads are cheaper then fixing yours IMHO
personally stick with a cam with a KNOWN name
youre car was beat on and now has some issues.
with your compression that high you have OIL in the cylinders. that is why its so high and why your burning oil so bad. you have bad seals. guides shouldnt be worn on these motors.
these motors are noisey but yours does sound worse then others. personally change the valve seals then drive it to it dies. theres a motor around the area with more noise then yours and still runs 10s all day long with a small cam and juice
personally stick with a cam with a KNOWN name
youre car was beat on and now has some issues.
with your compression that high you have OIL in the cylinders. that is why its so high and why your burning oil so bad. you have bad seals. guides shouldnt be worn on these motors.
these motors are noisey but yours does sound worse then others. personally change the valve seals then drive it to it dies. theres a motor around the area with more noise then yours and still runs 10s all day long with a small cam and juice
as far as new heads being cheaper.... i hightly doubt it.... i'm not spending 2G's on heads, when even if i tear down teh shortblcok and freshen everythign up, i'm not going to spend that much money...
and besides, is it easier to change the cam by dropping the motor out of the car or not?? I thought i've heard a lot of places that its just as easy and quick to drop the motor out... so if i'm already gonna have it out, why not tear the heads off and make sure everything is ok...
any way to visually tell if the guides are worn??
and yea, it does sorta suck that its been harped on pretty hard - especially b/c i plan on runnign it pretty damn hard... there was no way to tell all this when i tested it tho... everyting was tight and perfect when i tested it.... all the **** started when i hammered it that night
Originally Posted by SonofaBish
well quik, too late on the cam... i already ordered it... i think it'll be fine... actually i think i'm gonna like it a lot!
as far as new heads being cheaper.... i hightly doubt it.... i'm not spending 2G's on heads, when even if i tear down teh shortblcok and freshen everythign up, i'm not going to spend that much money...
and besides, is it easier to change the cam by dropping the motor out of the car or not?? I thought i've heard a lot of places that its just as easy and quick to drop the motor out... so if i'm already gonna have it out, why not tear the heads off and make sure everything is ok...
any way to visually tell if the guides are worn??
and yea, it does sorta suck that its been harped on pretty hard - especially b/c i plan on runnign it pretty damn hard... there was no way to tell all this when i tested it tho... everyting was tight and perfect when i tested it.... all the **** started when i hammered it that night
as far as new heads being cheaper.... i hightly doubt it.... i'm not spending 2G's on heads, when even if i tear down teh shortblcok and freshen everythign up, i'm not going to spend that much money...
and besides, is it easier to change the cam by dropping the motor out of the car or not?? I thought i've heard a lot of places that its just as easy and quick to drop the motor out... so if i'm already gonna have it out, why not tear the heads off and make sure everything is ok...
any way to visually tell if the guides are worn??
and yea, it does sorta suck that its been harped on pretty hard - especially b/c i plan on runnign it pretty damn hard... there was no way to tell all this when i tested it tho... everyting was tight and perfect when i tested it.... all the **** started when i hammered it that night
as for changing out the cam. i know how it is in a truck in a fbody i cant answer that. i know its simple for the motor itself.
as for looking at the guides im going ot say they arent bad, ive seen motors with alot of hammering nto have guide issues. these motors arent like other generation motors.
its probably the valve seals. the previous owner probably pulled his nice springs off along with his cam. and just slapped on the worn valve seals. as for the knocking you hear thats probably from it being beat on and probably having a cam in there and then replaced with a stocker
old school motor builders teamed up with Gen IIIs= bad combo
Dude you said "$$$ is in short supply".
Doesn't sound like it since you are wanting to tear the heads off and rebuild the motor instead of trying the simple things we are suggesting first.
And swaping in a cam is about 10% of the work as compared to taking the motor out.
Doesn't sound like it since you are wanting to tear the heads off and rebuild the motor instead of trying the simple things we are suggesting first.
And swaping in a cam is about 10% of the work as compared to taking the motor out.
No dude, money is in short supply, but i've made myself prepared and have the money to do a tear down... however, i don't have money to go buying bazilloin dollar heads and a forged shortblock and all this other **** that people say to get... and I will check out the valve seals... i'll give it a shot... but i dont want to keep ****** with **** all summer... i want to get the thing fixed, and be done with it...
and i didnt know.. i've heard ppl say in the past that it may be just as easy to swap the cam by dropping the motor out as to any other way... tha'ts the reason i said that...
And the more i think about it, the more i think that i may just take the heads off w/o dropping the motor... I think if i'm putting this cam in, i'd like to have the heads ported...
plus, if i wanna check out the tranny, its gotta be unbolted from the motor... why not just unbolt it all, and lift the car up off of the motor...
i konw i sound confused, but thats b/c i cam... i wanna do one thing, but then i also would rather do the other...
ppl tell me do this, do that.. and i want some options... like i said, i want to do this RIGHT, and not have to screw with it all summer... i want something fast and fun...and if it costs more now, and keeps me from doin **** all summer, its worth it...
and i didnt know.. i've heard ppl say in the past that it may be just as easy to swap the cam by dropping the motor out as to any other way... tha'ts the reason i said that...
And the more i think about it, the more i think that i may just take the heads off w/o dropping the motor... I think if i'm putting this cam in, i'd like to have the heads ported...
plus, if i wanna check out the tranny, its gotta be unbolted from the motor... why not just unbolt it all, and lift the car up off of the motor...
i konw i sound confused, but thats b/c i cam... i wanna do one thing, but then i also would rather do the other...
ppl tell me do this, do that.. and i want some options... like i said, i want to do this RIGHT, and not have to screw with it all summer... i want something fast and fun...and if it costs more now, and keeps me from doin **** all summer, its worth it...