I am trying to decide on a cylinder head to run and had high hopes on the Dart 205 and 225. This Oil consumption seems like a major problem.

I would like to hear what Dart has to say.

 

What oil consumption problem? I haven't heard of anything major yet with their heads out of the box and they have sold hundreds if not thousands of heads.

W2W uses Darts on their engine combos, maybe someone from there could comment.

Wouldnt the best idea be to call Dart and find out what they have to say?

 

Well, I guess your not paying close attention. That’s what I would expect you to start doing.

One of Darts vendors one this forum has stated that they don’t plan to do any business with Dart because of the oil consumption problem. So in my small world that would fall under a “Major Problem” for Dart.

I would like to here from Dart right here on this forum to explain. Dart hasn’t had a problem before ranting about how there products have been described on this forum. Don’t let it be a closed ended private conversion between Dart and myself. Dart does sell their heads to the public? Then why not address the public?

 

I can hear the conversation now. "really, that's the first time we have heard of this." We have sold thousands of sets of heads, and yours is the first we have heard of having a problem."

 

I read about TSP having problems with Dart heads THEY have dissasembled, CNC ported and have performed work on. I haven't heard of many (if any) complaints with Dart heads out of the box.

Believe me I pay very close attention to what is going on here...I have been a moderator here since this site started...

 

That's certainly not an exclusive arrangement.

Mark

 

So what your saying is that porting Dart heads causes oil consumption, is that right?

So what your saying is the Dart ports can’t be touch because it will cause oil consumption because a design flaw.

Who wants to buy an aftermarket performance cylinder heads that the ports can’t be touched?

I think in a post today or yesterday there was mention of the stock “please don’t touch” Dart heads with oil consumption problems.

Maybe a remedial read class would be a big help to you? Just asking.

 

Dont put words in my mouth... I am saying that one vendor is experiencing problems after making changes to out of the box heads.

W2W uses ported darts on their combos, maybe someone from their camp can chime in.

Given your post count and attitude you are beginning to sound like a troll. Are you just trying to stir up ****?

 

I was interested in a set of Dart heads, so I would really like to hear more about this. Mainly something from Dart.

 

Look on their website at their crate motors. They are advertising ported Darts.

Almost any vendor will use different heads if asked. I am just stating what they are advertising...

 

I don't want to bash TSP, but they are using their own springs and seals. My gut is telling me that their seals are not the same ID as the Dart seals and could be the source of the problem. Either way, once you change the Dart product Dart has not liablity in it at all, why would they.

I have the Dart heads, with their seals which I removed and re-installed. No oil control issues whatsoever with my heads.

I would love to see this mystery get solved, but I don't think that Dart can solve it unless they can provide some detailed information on their seals that could then be compared to the ones that TSP is using to see if there is a tolerance issue or something.

 

At W2W we have used 225 Dart heads as delivered and hand ported versions we assemble in house. I have seen no oil consumption problems in these heads. I ran a piston scuff test at 230F water and 250F+ oil temperature (8 minute cycles at wot, 5000rpm for 5 minutes, 5500rpm for 2 minutes and 6500rpm for 1 minute, then repeat cycle) with no oil consumption problems. Stock GM heads also will run this test without oil consumption.
If you have purchased heads that have trouble, call Dart with the head serial number and the place of purchase and they will help you resolve your trouble.


Kurt

 

Thanks Kurt!

Chris

 

I have called and talked to Dart a few times this week about there heads(wasn't aware of the oil consumtion when i did), but they were more then helpfull. And john on here i pmed twice and returned my PM by the next day.

From what i have seen he usualy comes on here every morning during the week. So my guess is he'll post up on these issues on monday. Not saying there isn't a problem, i'm just saying give them a call, cause i had pretty good luck with that.

Justin

 

I am going to try to answer each persons post on this topic one at a time.

M2SPEED: It is not a major problem, and frankly we havent had anybody else with any problem. Most of this keeps popping up from the same post over and over and over. I personally havent been on this site anymore, tired of argueing with people about other stuff, and someone didnt like my posting about this very issue.

CHRISPY: I agree if people have a problem, they should call Dart, after all they know more than most on here about this, and have done the research..

M2SPEED: Dart actually doesnt sell directly to the public, but due to a vendor not liking us being on here to help you guys I have stayed off this subject, well now I think I need to be on here, this hurts Dart at this point, the vendor will still sell parts, just different ones.

davered00ss: Actually we have heard of it, I have spent alot of time on the internet forums, reading and answering these post for months, and if you look you will find my answers many of times. What makes no sense, is the theories people have..

CHRSIPY: TSP didnt even buy Assembled Dart heads, they bought bare, did their porting and then assembled with their speced parts.

mdhmi: No Dart doesnt have any exclusive arrangements with W2W, W2W uses alot of Brands, ET Performance, AFR, and GM as well.

M2SPEED: Porting heads doesnt cause consumption, but there is something odd going on with a few cars, like less than five I would say, as best as my calculations can come up with...All could have other issues.
I dont think CHRISPY was saying dont port, I think his statement was simple, why do people buying the ported heads have problems, and the ones with unported dont?? Thats not a Dart problem, but why does this occur?? We need to find that out...

ThridGenLS1: I am glad that you asked your questions behind the closed door of these forums, as misinformation is not good for any company, wether it is Dart, or TSP, and unfortunately there isnt enough true engine builders, and head guys on here to give good accurate information, so it gets convaluted really quick.

I recommend people contacting me directly about any issues or questions they have, I dont want to get into pissing matches on some forum, and wont do it anymore.

We have looked at all possiblities with the casting and see no possible reason why people are making these claims.

I would look into the gasket sealing, the pictures I have seen so far looks like the oil is entering the port way before the seals, and the rocker hold down bolt, and the amount is not condusive to being valve seals, or the rocker bolt. The lines on the intake if crossed it is my understanding that the throttle body will actually suck oil out of the valley directly into the intake manifold.

Again email me direct with any problems.

jckeyes@dartheads.com or call 248-362-1188 or pm me.



a

 

Thanks for the reply, and not hiding out. Some of what you say is reasonable. I believe that large pooling on top of the cylinder head could cause excessive oil consumption through either the valve seals or rocker bolt holes. I have also read a lot about pcv concerns also. I wish you would inspect the heads that are in question to at least verify. There are a few on here that are pure butt kissers with loyalties to certain companies that post laughable and pathetic commits on both sides. Some of these folks work for this forum and have highly biased opinions that aren’t worth the keystrokes it took them to post it. I have no brand loyalties and just looking for honest answers before spending my hard earned money.

Thanks

 

Some of the guys having issues are also running higher pressure ported oil pumps. The LS1 is known for pumping a lot of oil up top at higher RPM, my owners manual even states to overfill the engine if you are going to do this. I don't think it the size of the puddle you see when you pull the rocker, because the valve cover is probably full to a higher level at high RPM anyhow irregardless of whose head you are running.

 

We would love to inspect them. We always stand behind our parts for warranty concerns and manufacturing defects, NOT MEE can vouch for that. All we need is the heads back.

Thanks

 

That is 1 of the reasons that LS7 went dry sump.

 

Heh, I remember when people were claiming MAC headers caused their car to smoke. I purposely ran MAC headers on several of my own cars just to prove to people that the headers had nothing to do with it. I also remember a big thread about about hot cams making people's car burn oil too. Sometimes when people bolt a fresh set of heads on a high mileage motor and raise the compression the stock rings just cant handle it, not to mention the rpm tends to go up as well as how often the car sees WOT

I run the Dart 225 heads and all I did was take them out of the box, look them over, wash them off and bolt them on. Here are some passes with about 100 miles on the new motor with Dart heads:

http://video.ls1tech.com/video/3FE6D...008909731F.htm

and also the vid in my sig, I dont see any smoke. I'm pleased with them so far, as far as power vs other heads I cant say exactly but I CAN say they dont smoke or use any oil.