Cam swap questions
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Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Cam swap questions I'm currently in the middle of a cam swap. I'm following jmX's cam swap guide which is absolutely badass, and I have a few questions.
1) First of all, I see that he recommends changing the metal seal that goes over the crank on the timing cover. How necessary is this? Where can I find a new seal? What can I expect to pay for it?
2) I'm going to be changing the valve spring seats, but I do not have new seals. According to the article, the seal and the spring are one piece on the '01-02 models, and mine is an '02. Does this mean I will have to buy new seals? If so, can I buy them at the local AutoZone, or will I have to go to a dealership for that? What can I expect to pay for this?
3) The guide also advises that you get a longer crank bolt. I bought a new SLP underdrive pulley, which came with a new crank bolt that appears to be the stock length. I tend to agree with his assessment that a longer crank bolt is advisable. I had trouble getting the pulley all the way off since the crank bolt was completely unthreaded, the pulley was snug against the back of the crank bolt head, and the pulley was still stuck on the crank. I had to pry the sucker off with a pry bar braced against the front sway bar. In any case, where can I get this bolt, and what can I expect to pay for it?
4) I haven't started tackling the springs yet, and I'm a little worried that the valves will fall into the cylinders. How firmly will the valves be held in place by friction? How reliable is the method that jmX recommends where you just use the dot on the crank timing gear to determine which piston(s) are at TDC?
Thanks in advance, guys.
1) First of all, I see that he recommends changing the metal seal that goes over the crank on the timing cover. How necessary is this? Where can I find a new seal? What can I expect to pay for it?
2) I'm going to be changing the valve spring seats, but I do not have new seals. According to the article, the seal and the spring are one piece on the '01-02 models, and mine is an '02. Does this mean I will have to buy new seals? If so, can I buy them at the local AutoZone, or will I have to go to a dealership for that? What can I expect to pay for this?
3) The guide also advises that you get a longer crank bolt. I bought a new SLP underdrive pulley, which came with a new crank bolt that appears to be the stock length. I tend to agree with his assessment that a longer crank bolt is advisable. I had trouble getting the pulley all the way off since the crank bolt was completely unthreaded, the pulley was snug against the back of the crank bolt head, and the pulley was still stuck on the crank. I had to pry the sucker off with a pry bar braced against the front sway bar. In any case, where can I get this bolt, and what can I expect to pay for it?
4) I haven't started tackling the springs yet, and I'm a little worried that the valves will fall into the cylinders. How firmly will the valves be held in place by friction? How reliable is the method that jmX recommends where you just use the dot on the crank timing gear to determine which piston(s) are at TDC?
Thanks in advance, guys.
Originally Posted by Gauge
I'm currently in the middle of a cam swap. I'm following jmX's cam swap guide which is absolutely badass, and I have a few questions.
1) First of all, I see that he recommends changing the metal seal that goes over the crank on the timing cover. How necessary is this? Where can I find a new seal? What can I expect to pay for it?
2) I'm going to be changing the valve spring seats, but I do not have new seals. According to the article, the seal and the spring are one piece on the '01-02 models, and mine is an '02. Does this mean I will have to buy new seals? If so, can I buy them at the local AutoZone, or will I have to go to a dealership for that? What can I expect to pay for this?
3) The guide also advises that you get a longer crank bolt. I bought a new SLP underdrive pulley, which came with a new crank bolt that appears to be the stock length. I tend to agree with his assessment that a longer crank bolt is advisable. I had trouble getting the pulley all the way off since the crank bolt was completely unthreaded, the pulley was snug against the back of the crank bolt head, and the pulley was still stuck on the crank. I had to pry the sucker off with a pry bar braced against the front sway bar. In any case, where can I get this bolt, and what can I expect to pay for it?
4) I haven't started tackling the springs yet, and I'm a little worried that the valves will fall into the cylinders. How firmly will the valves be held in place by friction? How reliable is the method that jmX recommends where you just use the dot on the crank timing gear to determine which piston(s) are at TDC?
Thanks in advance, guys.
1) First of all, I see that he recommends changing the metal seal that goes over the crank on the timing cover. How necessary is this? Where can I find a new seal? What can I expect to pay for it?
2) I'm going to be changing the valve spring seats, but I do not have new seals. According to the article, the seal and the spring are one piece on the '01-02 models, and mine is an '02. Does this mean I will have to buy new seals? If so, can I buy them at the local AutoZone, or will I have to go to a dealership for that? What can I expect to pay for this?
3) The guide also advises that you get a longer crank bolt. I bought a new SLP underdrive pulley, which came with a new crank bolt that appears to be the stock length. I tend to agree with his assessment that a longer crank bolt is advisable. I had trouble getting the pulley all the way off since the crank bolt was completely unthreaded, the pulley was snug against the back of the crank bolt head, and the pulley was still stuck on the crank. I had to pry the sucker off with a pry bar braced against the front sway bar. In any case, where can I get this bolt, and what can I expect to pay for it?
4) I haven't started tackling the springs yet, and I'm a little worried that the valves will fall into the cylinders. How firmly will the valves be held in place by friction? How reliable is the method that jmX recommends where you just use the dot on the crank timing gear to determine which piston(s) are at TDC?
Thanks in advance, guys.
Q 3.Use the tool from 618Hawk, its simple and safe, he ships fast so you dont have to put everything on hold for weeks, I was going to use the longer bolt method but this is much better. Use somthing though, you DO NOT want to strip those threads!!
Q 4. I used TDC method on mine, the valves only can drop a tiny bit when that one is a TDC, the method works and is easy!, Some use the compressed air method, either will work.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/removed-locked-thread-graveyard/391883-new-crank-dampener-installation-tool-pics.html
Thats the tool I was talking about.
Thats the tool I was talking about.
Originally Posted by Gauge
I'm currently in the middle of a cam swap. I'm following jmX's cam swap guide which is absolutely badass, and I have a few questions.
1) First of all, I see that he recommends changing the metal seal that goes over the crank on the timing cover. How necessary is this? Where can I find a new seal? What can I expect to pay for it?
1) First of all, I see that he recommends changing the metal seal that goes over the crank on the timing cover. How necessary is this? Where can I find a new seal? What can I expect to pay for it?
2) I'm going to be changing the valve spring seats, but I do not have new seals. According to the article, the seal and the spring are one piece on the '01-02 models, and mine is an '02. Does this mean I will have to buy new seals? If so, can I buy them at the local AutoZone, or will I have to go to a dealership for that? What can I expect to pay for this?
3) The guide also advises that you get a longer crank bolt. I bought a new SLP underdrive pulley, which came with a new crank bolt that appears to be the stock length. I tend to agree with his assessment that a longer crank bolt is advisable. I had trouble getting the pulley all the way off since the crank bolt was completely unthreaded, the pulley was snug against the back of the crank bolt head, and the pulley was still stuck on the crank. I had to pry the sucker off with a pry bar braced against the front sway bar. In any case, where can I get this bolt, and what can I expect to pay for it?
4) I haven't started tackling the springs yet, and I'm a little worried that the valves will fall into the cylinders. How firmly will the valves be held in place by friction? How reliable is the method that jmX recommends where you just use the dot on the crank timing gear to determine which piston(s) are at TDC?
Good luck with it dudeman. Take your time and im sure youll do fine.
-Tony
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,294
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From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Well, I'm working on it again, and I can't seem to get the JRP cam install tools in the block. I got the driver's side in without much trouble. However, the passenger side will not go in. I keep getting stuck at the same point (seems to be like the fifth lifter back). I've tried spinning the cam around several times. I even put the pushrods back in so I could push the lifters down against the cam and spin it again to be sure they got a good liftoff.
I also noticed that I can turn the cam all the way around with the driver's side in. However, as soon as the passenger side gets past the first lifter I can only turn the cam about 315 degrees. Does this mean that I'm doing something wrong?
(I'll be trying to get this stupid thing out while I wait for advice on how to get it in)
I also noticed that I can turn the cam all the way around with the driver's side in. However, as soon as the passenger side gets past the first lifter I can only turn the cam about 315 degrees. Does this mean that I'm doing something wrong?
(I'll be trying to get this stupid thing out while I wait for advice on how to get it in)
You might have one lifter still stuck down. try pulling the tool out past the 5th one, then rotating teh cam to exactly where you couldnt to push the lifter back up, then try and catch the lifter while its up by inserting the jpr tool again. if that makes sense.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Well, I'd love to take your advice, Tony, but I appear to have screwed myself at this point. Now I can't get the passenger side tool out! The cam is free, the lifters appear to be up, but I cannot for the life of me get the tool out. I'm afraid to pull much harder since it's such weak metal. I'm afraid that I'll break it off in the block which, as we all know, would spell disaster. I have no idea what could be keeping me from being able to pull it out or what to do at this point.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Upon further inspection, reflection, tugging on the cam install tool, cursing, etc, I think that I may have to pull the head off that side to resolve the issue. If I do, I can remove the lifters and at least see what's going on. Although, if it's wedged in there, I'm not sure I'll be any more capable of dealing with the situation with the lifters removed. Thoughts?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
No, no love from the valley cover. I could see the tool, but I couldn't see it touching anything. I'm working on taking the head off now. I sure hope my header will get far enough out of the way for this.
Originally Posted by Gauge
No, no love from the valley cover. I could see the tool, but I couldn't see it touching anything. I'm working on taking the head off now. I sure hope my header will get far enough out of the way for this.
Now the important question, How are you with a dremel? With a flexi shaft dremel, a couple bits and a couple extra hours you could touch up the heads very easily while youre in there. Its a shame to have to pull the heads off and not do anything to them while theyre off. If its something you might be interested in, let me know, ive got a ton of info and a bunch of pics from when I did my heads.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Crap. Are you taking both sides off or just one? If you pull both sides, you can possibly throw on a thinner gasket for a tighter quench and a touch more compression. This will let you run more timing and add more torque to counteract some of the low end the cam will lose.
Now the important question, How are you with a dremel? With a flexi shaft dremel, a couple bits and a couple extra hours you could touch up the heads very easily while youre in there. Its a shame to have to pull the heads off and not do anything to them while theyre off. If its something you might be interested in, let me know, ive got a ton of info and a bunch of pics from when I did my heads.
Now the important question, How are you with a dremel? With a flexi shaft dremel, a couple bits and a couple extra hours you could touch up the heads very easily while youre in there. Its a shame to have to pull the heads off and not do anything to them while theyre off. If its something you might be interested in, let me know, ive got a ton of info and a bunch of pics from when I did my heads.
I'm done for the night, and I have four bolts left on the head. Tomorrow I'm going to get a pipe for a cheater and get the head off the motor. I'll yank the lifters and see if I can't get that God-forsaken tool out of my engine block. If so, then I'll switch the cam and smile as I change the springs more easily on the removed head.
Now I have a few questions...
1) Do I need to buy new bolts for the head?
2) Do I need to buy a new head gasket?
3) Do I need to buy a new header gasket? (This one has about 15k miles on it)
4) When pulling the electical connectors off the fuel injectors, I seem to have lost the little blue rubber pieces that go inside some of them. Are these critical? Can I buy them somewhere for cheap?
5) Why, oh, why did GM make those plastic spikes on the bottom of the cowl at the base of the hood? My hands are now hamburger... or, handburger. Haha, I kill myself... on those damn spikes.
Originally Posted by Gauge
1) Do I need to buy new bolts for the head?
2) Do I need to buy a new head gasket?
3) Do I need to buy a new header gasket? (This one has about 15k miles on it)
4) When pulling the electical connectors off the fuel injectors, I seem to have lost the little blue rubber pieces that go inside some of them. Are these critical? Can I buy them somewhere for cheap?
5) Why, oh, why did GM make those plastic spikes on the bottom of the cowl at the base of the hood? My hands are now hamburger... or, handburger. Haha, I kill myself... on those damn spikes.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
More questions...
1) I'm looking at Thunder Racing to get the parts I need for reassembly. I see here that the GM LS1 cylinder head bolt kit includes "4 M8 bolts, 2 short head bolts, and 8 long head bolts." Isn't that totally wrong? Shouldn't there be 10 long, 15mm bolts and 5 short, 10mm bolts?
2) I was futzing around looking at some stuff on the forums, I found a thread that said that GM started using MLS Cometic head gaskets on '02 and newer LS1/LS6 engines and that they were reusable. Is this accurate?
3) Since I'm going to be waiting for parts anyway, where should I look to order a longer crank bolt? Might as well at this point.
1) I'm looking at Thunder Racing to get the parts I need for reassembly. I see here that the GM LS1 cylinder head bolt kit includes "4 M8 bolts, 2 short head bolts, and 8 long head bolts." Isn't that totally wrong? Shouldn't there be 10 long, 15mm bolts and 5 short, 10mm bolts?
2) I was futzing around looking at some stuff on the forums, I found a thread that said that GM started using MLS Cometic head gaskets on '02 and newer LS1/LS6 engines and that they were reusable. Is this accurate?
3) Since I'm going to be waiting for parts anyway, where should I look to order a longer crank bolt? Might as well at this point.
Originally Posted by Gauge
1) I'm looking at Thunder Racing to get the parts I need for reassembly. I see here that the GM LS1 cylinder head bolt kit includes "4 M8 bolts, 2 short head bolts, and 8 long head bolts." Isn't that totally wrong? Shouldn't there be 10 long, 15mm bolts and 5 short, 10mm bolts?
2) I was futzing around looking at some stuff on the forums, I found a thread that said that GM started using MLS Cometic head gaskets on '02 and newer LS1/LS6 engines and that they were reusable. Is this accurate?
3) Since I'm going to be waiting for parts anyway, where should I look to order a longer crank bolt? Might as well at this point.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
Okay, I got the JPR tool out tonight. I pulled the passenger side head, yanked on the front lifter, and the tool came sliding out easily. Needless to say, I won't need it any more since I can just pull the lifters on that side.
Now, the next problem I've run into (I just can't get anything right the first time) is that I can't get the cam out. I pull the first four lobes out, but I can't get past the first journal. I have the water pump bolts in the front of the cam and am lifting the back as hard as possible. I have the valley cover off, so I can even stick my finger in the back hole (that sounds sick) and lift the back of the cam up while trying to pull it out. The cam seems to be going into the bearing properly and it all feels right. I can spin it relatively freely (although there does seem to be a good amount of friction) and I cannot wiggle it side to side or up and down.
Just to be sure that I'm lifting the back of the cam correctly, I have pushed it all the way back in several times. I seem to have no trouble getting all five bearings lined up, but I can't get four lined up when pulling the cam. It seems that the former would be harder since you have less of the cam in your hand, less leverage, and five holes to line up instead of four.
Could one of the bearings be messed up? Am I doing something wrong? GuitsBoy already gave me some advice on this, but I think the more ways I hear it said, the better equipped I will be to get this damn thing out.
Now, the next problem I've run into (I just can't get anything right the first time) is that I can't get the cam out. I pull the first four lobes out, but I can't get past the first journal. I have the water pump bolts in the front of the cam and am lifting the back as hard as possible. I have the valley cover off, so I can even stick my finger in the back hole (that sounds sick) and lift the back of the cam up while trying to pull it out. The cam seems to be going into the bearing properly and it all feels right. I can spin it relatively freely (although there does seem to be a good amount of friction) and I cannot wiggle it side to side or up and down.
Just to be sure that I'm lifting the back of the cam correctly, I have pushed it all the way back in several times. I seem to have no trouble getting all five bearings lined up, but I can't get four lined up when pulling the cam. It seems that the former would be harder since you have less of the cam in your hand, less leverage, and five holes to line up instead of four.
Could one of the bearings be messed up? Am I doing something wrong? GuitsBoy already gave me some advice on this, but I think the more ways I hear it said, the better equipped I will be to get this damn thing out.
You not doing anything wrong. Squirt some oil down in there since you've already pulled it apart for the most part. You have to have the cam straght and square and plumb with the cam bearing (all of them) AT THE SAME TIME for it to come out. Pulling hard won't do it. Turning and jiggling while pulling helps. The cam is long and heavy so a tool just a long as the cam to hold it while removing and installing it helps big time. I made my own tool out of a threaded rod and some flat stock. I wouldn't buck my puller tool rod up against the crank bolt when pulling the crank pulley off. When you do that you're using the crank threads to force the pulley off. I put a BIG allen head cap screw with some large flat washer in there after I get the bolt out. That way the puller rod is self-centering and the cap screw bucks up against the crank snout not the crank threads when removing the pulley.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Dallas (Richardson), TX, USA
I got the cam out of the car with a little more tugging. Now I have just a few more questions at this point...
1) When pulling the water pump off, I noticed that one of the little orange O-ring things is busted. Where can I get another one of these?
2) I asked earlier about the fact that I had lost one or two of the blue gasket type things on the electrical connectors going to the fuel injectors. Here is a picture of what I'm talking about. How important are these, and where should I look to get replacements?
3) What is this?
1) When pulling the water pump off, I noticed that one of the little orange O-ring things is busted. Where can I get another one of these?
2) I asked earlier about the fact that I had lost one or two of the blue gasket type things on the electrical connectors going to the fuel injectors. Here is a picture of what I'm talking about. How important are these, and where should I look to get replacements?
3) What is this?
1. You can get it at teh dealership or through SDPC shoudl be less than 5 bucks each one.
2. The blue gaskets are kindof important to keep the water out of the connection. You could always try some dielectric bulb grease or also try the stealership.
3. Looks like you might have scratched it with the bottom of a bolt or something. I dont think the valves or anything floating around the head would make that kind of mark. Plus it looks like the carbon was scraped off. how deep is it? Probably no cause for alarm.
2. The blue gaskets are kindof important to keep the water out of the connection. You could always try some dielectric bulb grease or also try the stealership.
3. Looks like you might have scratched it with the bottom of a bolt or something. I dont think the valves or anything floating around the head would make that kind of mark. Plus it looks like the carbon was scraped off. how deep is it? Probably no cause for alarm.