TEA TrickFlow Heads with MS4?? :)
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From: Houston
TEA TrickFlow Heads with MS4?? :) I’m seriously considering installing the following items in the next couple of weeks. Has anyone else ever tried this combo or have any thoughts on it?
2002 LS1
TEA TrickFlow 225 Heads (no milling)
Cometic .040 Head Gasket
Comp 7.700 Rods
YellaTerra 1.7 Roller Rockers
Comp 921 Springs
TSP MS4 Cam
Double roller chain
ASP under drive
Blah blah blah, few more little items.
I’m really just curious how the heads will work with the MS4.
BTW It’s a 6spd car with a 150 wet shot
2002 LS1
TEA TrickFlow 225 Heads (no milling)
Cometic .040 Head Gasket
Comp 7.700 Rods
YellaTerra 1.7 Roller Rockers
Comp 921 Springs
TSP MS4 Cam
Double roller chain
ASP under drive
Blah blah blah, few more little items.
I’m really just curious how the heads will work with the MS4.
BTW It’s a 6spd car with a 150 wet shot
I doubt anyone has tried it, They're too new to give you a solid answer. The flow numbers on the 215 Trick Flows are great though (do they have 225's?). What are the specs on the MS4, do you have gears? When I have my heads in next week I'll let you know how the midrange feels. Best to send a message to Brian Tooley or Mike at TEA and let them give you some thoughts on it.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Houston
The MS4 is a 239/242, .649"/.609" 111 +4.
I have already talked to TEA about the heads/cam setup, and they do offer a 225cc head.
Just wanted to see if anyone else had something to say about the combo. If everything clears, it should make some serious power.
I have already talked to TEA about the heads/cam setup, and they do offer a 225cc head.
Just wanted to see if anyone else had something to say about the combo. If everything clears, it should make some serious power.
Sounds like a sick setup, it'll be nasty for a daily driver, awesome on a weekend/fun car. Unless you're like me then it'll be awesome daily driver or not. You didn't post a mod list, but I would day a strong rear with 4.11's is a must with that cam. The valve angle on that head should allow you to run the cam without flycutting the pistons, barely, but I am no expert so I'd look into it. I would recommend a smaller cam since you are running nitrous, if only to preserve the bottom end/bearings. Your call though, it'll be sick regardless.
Ditch the rockers. You're putting weight over the valve... and with the LSK lobes, the Comp 921s don't need any more stress on them to help induce valve float.
Btw, what's the size of the intake valve, is it 2.05" or 2.08"? If it's 2.08" I'd strongly recommend not going with anything but the stock rockers as the 2.08s have even more weight for the 921s to control.
Btw, what's the size of the intake valve, is it 2.05" or 2.08"? If it's 2.08" I'd strongly recommend not going with anything but the stock rockers as the 2.08s have even more weight for the 921s to control.
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Nah, the stock rockers are fine for LSK lobes and 7k+ RPM and even beefier springs than that. Several guys on the board using similar set-ups. Even stock lifters are fine for that (something like Morels would be much better, though).
The only problem the stock rockers have is with spilling the needle bearings. Harland Sharp has a rebuild program for the stock rockers where they replace the needle bearings with new trunions and C-clips. It's like $200 and is a good deal and nice safety net. If you wanted new pieces that fit under the valve covers, the Crane rockers are lightweight and a solid kit, but at $695 for the kit (custom pushrods, rockers, studs), you're spending money on something that offers no real performance gain.
The only problem the stock rockers have is with spilling the needle bearings. Harland Sharp has a rebuild program for the stock rockers where they replace the needle bearings with new trunions and C-clips. It's like $200 and is a good deal and nice safety net. If you wanted new pieces that fit under the valve covers, the Crane rockers are lightweight and a solid kit, but at $695 for the kit (custom pushrods, rockers, studs), you're spending money on something that offers no real performance gain.
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Brett Foote
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The only problem is that isn't a very balanced setup. Probably too much cam for that rev range, displacement and head flow. And maybe too much head.
TEA recommended that cam and those heads for a hydraulic roller 346? What intake was planned? Isn't that the limiting factor?
TEA recommended that cam and those heads for a hydraulic roller 346? What intake was planned? Isn't that the limiting factor?
Thread Starter
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From: Houston
The cam is a little 'out there' and the heads are a little large... I could still tone down the config a bit, I might go with the 215 Tricks and a smaller cam.
The intake planned is a FAST 90 and it's running 1-7/8 KooKs with 3" exhaust all the way back. With the amount of flow even the 215's have, I want a cam large enough to use all of the flow and make as much 'real' power as possible. This car gets about 1000 miles a year and it's a 6spd, so I dont care how crazy the cam is.
Jake - I already have a new set of YT rockers, so I'll prob use them unless there is a reason they wont work at all.
The intake planned is a FAST 90 and it's running 1-7/8 KooKs with 3" exhaust all the way back. With the amount of flow even the 215's have, I want a cam large enough to use all of the flow and make as much 'real' power as possible. This car gets about 1000 miles a year and it's a 6spd, so I dont care how crazy the cam is.
Jake - I already have a new set of YT rockers, so I'll prob use them unless there is a reason they wont work at all.
I think you have gotten some very good advice on here. Sell the YT rockers, send your stock rockers to Harland Sharp and have the bearing deal done, I think it's around $100 or so? You are trying to fill the cylinder with air, the bigger the intake port the less cam you can run. The 225 is optimized for a 4.00" bore, it may not flow as well on a 3.90 bore as the 215 that is optimized for the 3.90 bore. I think you have fallen into the old, "if this size is great, then bigger must be better" The 215 is the best head we have seen for a 3.90 bore, I have all the cam testing that was done on the engine dyno, 10 cams in all if I remember correctly. A moderate size cam (230/230) would be the direction I would go with it. John Norris ran 10's on motor in the Alabama heat with that setup, so it can't be too bad.
I agree with Brian on the head selection (nice numbers on the 4.00" Bore with the 225s 
)
A Comp XE-R 232/236 112+2 would be a good cam that'd match well with the heads and give you a solid DCR without the need to flycut. Or, something like the TRaK cam from TR would also work extremely well.
)A Comp XE-R 232/236 112+2 would be a good cam that'd match well with the heads and give you a solid DCR without the need to flycut. Or, something like the TRaK cam from TR would also work extremely well.
Comp 850s are a good choice if your stock lifters have miles on them, although, I think all lifters for post-87 GM vehicles are the same (LS1, LT1, LS7, Comp OEM, Melling, etc).
Morels are the best (or the Lunati-branded Morels which are $150 cheaper). Lifetime rebuild warranty on the Morels and perhaps on the Lunatis, although I am unsure. But you should be fine with some new stock lifters.
Morels are the best (or the Lunati-branded Morels which are $150 cheaper). Lifetime rebuild warranty on the Morels and perhaps on the Lunatis, although I am unsure. But you should be fine with some new stock lifters.
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
I think you have gotten some very good advice on here. Sell the YT rockers, send your stock rockers to Harland Sharp and have the bearing deal done, I think it's around $100 or so? You are trying to fill the cylinder with air, the bigger the intake port the less cam you can run. The 225 is optimized for a 4.00" bore, it may not flow as well on a 3.90 bore as the 215 that is optimized for the 3.90 bore. I think you have fallen into the old, "if this size is great, then bigger must be better" The 215 is the best head we have seen for a 3.90 bore, I have all the cam testing that was done on the engine dyno, 10 cams in all if I remember correctly. A moderate size cam (230/230) would be the direction I would go with it. John Norris ran 10's on motor in the Alabama heat with that setup, so it can't be too bad.
Last edited by DavidNJ; Jul 21, 2006 at 03:28 PM.
Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
I think you have gotten some very good advice on here. Sell the YT rockers, send your stock rockers to Harland Sharp and have the bearing deal done, I think it's around $100 or so? You are trying to fill the cylinder with air, the bigger the intake port the less cam you can run. The 225 is optimized for a 4.00" bore, it may not flow as well on a 3.90 bore as the 215 that is optimized for the 3.90 bore. I think you have fallen into the old, "if this size is great, then bigger must be better" The 215 is the best head we have seen for a 3.90 bore, I have all the cam testing that was done on the engine dyno, 10 cams in all if I remember correctly. A moderate size cam (230/230) would be the direction I would go with it. John Norris ran 10's on motor in the Alabama heat with that setup, so it can't be too bad.
Originally Posted by DavidNJ
Brian, would those heads work well with the LSK lobes? (my guess is yes...very well.) And are you recommending equal exhaust and intake duration? What power levels would your expect with that combo? What compression ratio and quench area would you run with 91 or 93 octane? Would you use a flat top or 12cc dish?