this may hav kinda biased results, seeing as it's ls1tech.com and not oldschoolcarburatedmotortech.com

 

Been a SBC guy all my life. I've got a 383 in my Jeep right now, but I have seen the light and embracing all the LSx line has to offer!

 

I like both, but ask the old school guys how much it would cost to build a 18' head SBC versus buying a factory 15' headed LS1. A set of $1200 LSx heads will outflow most $2000 SBC heads.
Things have advanced, there is no way around it. Most mild-med SBC cams have about .500" lift, LSx are in the .600" range and can still idle well.

 

ok i got on this one a little late but this is what i call a topic. ok from personal expericance its like this i have basically learned what i know off of 350s, 305s, and the occassional 454. all three are wonderful engines the engineering of ed cole and his team in chevy back in the 50s was amazing in what they did. it was so amazing that even in the 90s the LT1/LT4 was a contindor even with its technology primarily based in the 50s (minus the computer stuff). the classic small blocks was an engineering marvel which is why they lasted for 50+ years and why we are still playing with them today. saying that i have basically done everything that you can do to a classic small block short of turboing it. i got my hands on an LS1 in 2000ish and put it in a 49 chevy for this guy. wires out the *** i will tell you but it was a performer like none other. i got so very interested in the LS1 since then. like some of you i have researched the romulus small blocks to learn more about them. what i learned was that eventhough the classic small blocks were great they did have their flaws. the race teams of chevy basiscally said their complaints about the 350 and what they liked about it. the LS1 and its family, the romulus small blocks, kept everything that made the classic small blocks a ledgen and fixed their problems that they had. basically the romulus small blocks are not just a redesigned 350 they are an evolutionary leep forward from the classic small blocks. i remember the first time i tore a 5.3L engine apart. this is a stock truck engine and everytime i took a part off my jaw just dropped on the hi performance parts that just came stock on these engines. everything that i did to a classic small block or big block was stock in the romulus small blocks. the only thing that i could think was potential for greatness that a classic small block could never achieve. i couldn't afford an LS1 so i bored out my 5.3L 120 over. how many 350s or 454s can say that they can do that safely and still have room to go safely....none. my point is you can't compare the two because the 350 is the base inwhich the LT4 sprang from. the LT4 is the base inwhich the LS1 and the romulus small blocks sprang from. the romulus small blocks are basically two steps a head of the classic small blocks that we are have grown to love in every aspect. the only thing that makes the classic small block now desiriable is this price and vast and i do mean vast amounts of knowledge on them compared to the romulus small blocks but i guess if you were a round for 50+ years the same could be said about the LS1 and its family, the romulus small blocks.

 

My pride and joy used to be my 12 second 73 nova, 355 10:1, th350 with 3400 convertor, with 3.73s, i used worry everytime id drive it to the track is the convertor gonna cook the trans, am i gonna get stuck in traffic and it load up and foul the plugs, dual 3 in pipes gettin the interior toasty in 90 degree weather sweating my fat *** off,and 10mpg

then i bought my 98 trans am i only had the nova for six months after i bought it, it was just about the same performance wise and its power everything a/c, leather, much more drivable, and almost 30mpg highway

I miss the nova's intimidation factor though, nasty idle and dual 3in with 40 series deltaforce race mufflers made the trans ams loudmouth sound like a v6 compared to it, didnt have ricers mess with me in the nova

i just need some LTs and head/cam setup and i dont think ill miss it anymore

 

if you want to compare the two classic small/big block vs romulus small block i have some good match ups. we will take the best from both families and compare them

1964-65 vette with a 327 making 375 vs 2001-2004 vette with an LS6 making 405

the LS6 wins in both hp and hp/CID

327-375 hp with 115% efficiency....LS6-405 hp with 117% efficiency (on unleaded)

or how about this one (personally i like this one the most)

1969 vette with a 427 making 435 ph or a 454 ZRI or ZL1 (i can't remember the name) but in know it was in the copo camaro making what 450 ph vs the LS7 making 505 ph

427-435 hp efficiency 102%
454-450 hp efficiency 99.1%
LS7- 505 hp efficiency 118% (on unleaded gas)

clear winner romulus small blocks.

 

I know this doesn't fit this post too well cuz the car can't be driven to the track. And the engine isn't an old SBC or even an LSx. But it is a Chevy and fun to watch.

This sumbitch is one quick "old school" hot rod. All steel, original steel bumpers front and rear, etc. First an article about the car.....then a video showing a 6 second, 1/4 mile trip.

http://www.dragracingonline.com/feat...-burney-1.html


http://videos.streetfire.net/search/55+chevy/0/0e757d61-13f2-4615-9fff-9841002d233f.htm

 

those old vettes and camaros were using gross horsepower figures too right? i mean no power accessories, just straight engine on a dyno. i'd say if we converted them to current SAE specs there would be even bigger gaps in horsepower between old and new...

 

Why in the HELL do you keep calling the LS1 a "romulus small block"? Do you know who Romulus was? You're contradicting yourself.

But I will say this - I'm swapping a LS1 into my '69 Camaro. My dad, who has owned a 66 chevelle, a 70 chevelle, a 66 corvette, a 61 corvette, a 68 corvette, a 70 corvette, a 71 corvette, a 72 corvette, and a a 00 corvette...6 SBC's and 3 BBC's, and then misc. trucks and vans with SBC's...he says he is DONE with carbeurated motors, unless it's for originality and resale value. What's the point of messing with carbeuraters and distributors when you can have a PCM do it all for you?

 

there are no contradictions. Romulus in this case isn't a who but a where. Romulus, Michigan. its where the LS1 and all of its similar engines were originally made. the LS1 was exclusivily made in this town.

 

Woooooow. I never knew that, lol. I thought you meant Romulus, as in the founder of Rome.

 

Ive got my own opinion, the gen 3 lsx based motors have there advantages and their disadvantages, 1st the new style gen 3 motors dont have enough head bolts, the stock rods, pistons, valve train is ****. why change a tested and thurough motor for a aluminum pile of ****. Yes this is coming from a guy that owns a ls1 trans am. The advantages of the gen 3 motors is that they respond well to small modifications, they are more efficent, produce better power. Its all based on a personal choice not wether one is better than the other. Puts on Flame suit ... I just believe that the gen 3 lsx motors were built for profit and not for durability.


Hmm if the sbc's have been around long enough to sort out all of the problems that develop, the lsx motors havnt been around long enough to see what the time told mileage will do to them. DO YOU THINK THAT LSX MOTORS WILL STILL BE WIDLY USED IN 50 Years?

 

umm, in all unbiased fact based on r&d..the gen3+ motors ARE better than sbc's... period. head design, block design, cam design, power, efficiency, intake design, the valvetrain, the internals. in terms of engineering... the lsx motors are better in many, many, many ways. face it the sbc is obsolete
not durable? are you high?

 

you guys trashing on the "old school" engines is about as bad as "old school" guys trashing on you. don't be so narrow to think that the old engine cannot be efficient AND powerfull. while pullin mid 12's with my TAME 455 i was getting 15mpg. it is all in the tune. true, you got a/c, tunes, and leather, but when i get into my '65 Lemans i forget about the niceties. it is meant for driving, and driving fast. it doesnt handle worth a damn, and i like it that way. and last year, i would drive 40 miles, lay down high 11's, and drive home. it has been from Bettendorf Iowa to Virginia Beach. you don't ride in this, you drive it. or it will kick your ***. this year i am going for the 10's and with my little home grown twin turbo system i should easily be in the 9's. i will drive it to Iowa, i will drive it to Florida, i will go to the beach. and i love not having to call pcmforless or consult my lap top everytime i make a cam change. i love high tech, i love low tech more. i mean, for about $12k i've got a TEN second car. $2k more and i may be in the nines. both styles have their good points and bad. i drive the T/A when i need to get to work or play around, i drive the '65 when i need an adrenaline rush.

 

Keep in mind how old is the technology that the so called "old school guys" are using? Lets just say its old and primitive but, it is still kicking *** and taking names. In my opinion an lsx motor is a sophisticated small block chevy. I love the old and the new. The new stuff has evolved from the old stuff and whats to come next? Maybe in the future people will post that the lsx motors are old and primitive. Lets keep in mind that all sbc's that I've seen share a common componet... the pushrod. How old is that? What if GM releases a overhead cam lsx? Then people with pushrod Ls based motors will be told to get with the times. All in all I think we should respect the old and the new. Just my 2 cents.

 

yes i agree the one negative about the LS1 is the fact that it is made of aluminum. what is cool i think about the engine is the architecture of the engine. its not as strong or as durable as a 350 but is almost. personally i like iron eventhough it weighs considerable more. now compare a 4.8/5.3L block or even a 6.0L iron block to a 4 bolt main 350 there is no contest on strangth and durability the new blocks have it. the new iron blocks are like a tank. aside from the electronic mess the 4.8/5.3L iron block is like a hotrodders dream whatever can be done to a 350 can be done to a 4.8/5.3L block and more. i do think the romulus small blocks will be here for a while but 50 years is a challenge because of new technology that rapidly appears. look how long it took to make GEN II it was like 40 years. look how long it took to make gen III from gen II and gen VI from gen III that was like not even 10 years. so the rate of evolution in these blocks is more than 4 times as fast as in the gen I. and it seem with the gen VI they are pulling out the stops on what they are putting it them.

 

Sounds like your friends have been smoked by an LS1.

People tend trash stuff that they can't comprehend. Like getting smoked by an "overrated LS1." Hell, I use to be the same way. I had a 76 Corvette which I built and hand picked all my parts. It was cheap too. But, when I got smoked by several LS1s, that's when I said "If you can't beat'em..." Now I own one and it fits me way better than a GenI motor.

Oh ya, and I've also heard the whole "You can't tune them like a carburater." True you can't but you can make one run twice as effecient with proper tuning. And with tuning, once it's dialed in right for your motor, it's just a case of set and forget. It's not bad it's just some people don't like things that they can't understand. I was like that until I saw the light. Now my old dreams of running 8.00s (1/8) have been passed like it was sitting still. 6.99s here I come!!!

If you still can't get your point across, just tell them to line'em up! That's what I do. Then watch them back out. HAHA!!! That's the best part.

 

oh btw, aluminum engines and over head cams have been around almost as long as the pushrod. like i said, i love them both. but everyone has their preference, and i don't mind lining up with the LSX's, i've got respect for ANY engine that can run the numbers. hell look at my name.

 

why would ford copy the intake design on the new mustangs if the ls1 is junk? btw the new corvette isnt carburated i wonder why?? i vote ls1...

 

Somehow i dont think that ford copyed the head design.. The New corvette isnt carborated because it would never pass emmissions or be desired by people who spend 50+k for a car.