View Poll Results: You choose what you favor
LS Based new school engines
268
89.93%
Old school engines
30
10.07%
Voters: 298. You may not vote on this poll
NEW SCHOOL(lsBASED) VS OLD SCHOOL!!
NEW SCHOOL(lsBASED) VS OLD SCHOOL!! Ok guys. These guys give me **** all day long everyday on my car saying That ls1 motors are "expensive junk" They allway say "for the price of an ls1 I can make a old 350 with 600 horsepower bla bla bla" I try to explain to them that they dont even know becasue first of all they have never even prob. been in a ls1 powered car. I understand it is possible to make any engine fast, but they keep hating on me saying "ls1 are hard to work on and they have electronic junk blablabla" I told them its personal preference but they still continuing bashing the late model engines.
Please help me explain to these guys how the ls1 motors are a great inovation on gm's part and how they are not "expensive hards to work on electronically controlled junk" as they would say.
Please help me explain to these guys how the ls1 motors are a great inovation on gm's part and how they are not "expensive hards to work on electronically controlled junk" as they would say.
If they can't understand electronics then they clearly shouldn't be working on cars, as it seems cars have ALL gone in that direction, and with good reason; they are far more efficient.
Also, asking that question on here is like asking who hates rap at a Klan convention. Just about everyong is going to give you their biased answer.
Also, asking that question on here is like asking who hates rap at a Klan convention. Just about everyong is going to give you their biased answer.
hey this is what i usually say. i can drive my car to the track. can you? oh and i can also run 10's in the 1/4. can you? oh and BTW it also get 25mpg. how bout yours? oh and i can ride with the A/C on. how bout you? LOL they usually feel bad after that beating LOL.
Well, they must have fallen out of the loop over the years. The LS1 is one of the most popular platforms for racing right now.
And you could probably make a monster old school motor for less, but how many miles to a tank will you get?? The technology now days allows for high horsepower & still have daily driver mileage with the correct tune.
I almost hate to argue this situation. Some of the older guys are die hard old school. Some understand the advantage of the newer motors & fuel injection. Its basically whatever you personally like.
Old school is great for track only or weekend cruiser, but I would choose a heavily modified LS1 w/proper tuning for a daily driver over old school anyday of the week for reliability & gas mileage.
Just my .02
And you could probably make a monster old school motor for less, but how many miles to a tank will you get?? The technology now days allows for high horsepower & still have daily driver mileage with the correct tune.
I almost hate to argue this situation. Some of the older guys are die hard old school. Some understand the advantage of the newer motors & fuel injection. Its basically whatever you personally like.
Old school is great for track only or weekend cruiser, but I would choose a heavily modified LS1 w/proper tuning for a daily driver over old school anyday of the week for reliability & gas mileage.
Just my .02
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Only 1 argument point to throw at them:
HEADS
This is the major improvement, valve angle, chamber shape etc....
Just ask them if they can shove a 242/248 110+4 in the Gen I with stock heads and hit 10's in the 1/4 because we can
.
Or can they match on any day having a stock internal 350 hit high 10's, we can do that too. (10.92 is the new record, IIRC)
I used to be OLD school and saw the light back in 98. At the track my old school rivals are running Big block + nitrous and I still whip their asses.
Tell them "Welcome to the 21st Century"
HEADS
This is the major improvement, valve angle, chamber shape etc....
Just ask them if they can shove a 242/248 110+4 in the Gen I with stock heads and hit 10's in the 1/4 because we can
.Or can they match on any day having a stock internal 350 hit high 10's, we can do that too. (10.92 is the new record, IIRC)
I used to be OLD school and saw the light back in 98. At the track my old school rivals are running Big block + nitrous and I still whip their asses.
Tell them "Welcome to the 21st Century"
the only people that say that, have slow cars.
i can build a "400hp" vortec headded SBC cheaper then a LS1.. true.
but.... for a enging that flows the same as a LS1 and makes the same power, id spend more.
because thoes $2,000 AFRs sure cost more then the $600 PRCs or even the stock heads...
fact is, theres a price diff for lower power motors that puts the SBC at a cost per hp advantage....
then you reach a power level where the LS1 is cheaper....
then you reach a power level so high that they're both equally stupidly expensive...
alot of guys are content with the lower levels for a street car.. they consider it fast, and thats why the LS1 looks so pricy to them...
meanwhile, i doubt i'll ever go back to SBCs... its too cheap and great to drop in genIII+ motors.
i can build a "400hp" vortec headded SBC cheaper then a LS1.. true.
but.... for a enging that flows the same as a LS1 and makes the same power, id spend more.
because thoes $2,000 AFRs sure cost more then the $600 PRCs or even the stock heads...
fact is, theres a price diff for lower power motors that puts the SBC at a cost per hp advantage....
then you reach a power level where the LS1 is cheaper....
then you reach a power level so high that they're both equally stupidly expensive...
alot of guys are content with the lower levels for a street car.. they consider it fast, and thats why the LS1 looks so pricy to them...
meanwhile, i doubt i'll ever go back to SBCs... its too cheap and great to drop in genIII+ motors.
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TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
From: Hoover, AL
well, this is what i have to say, i am 21 so im not "set in my ways" quite yet i hope lol. i was raised working on oldsmobiles and me and my dad managed to get a ton of power out of many of them and daily drive them at the say time getting about 18mpg which is not bad at all for a big 455. and its basically the same as building any LS1 really, shove a cam in there, port your heads, throw some headers on all that good stuff, the difference is, since i dont really have any way to tune mine or know how really i have to pay someone to get it done. you tune and old school car based on your lets just say senses you develope when you work on those things all the time. you adjust your carb and you listen to the motor smooth out, you smell that less gas is making it through the exhaust system, then you go run it and see if your efforts have paid off. my LS1 i bought because i' hav never had a new car and i always liked them, i never intended to mod it, lol how many of us have said that. but the car was so incredibly powerful just out of the box i was like damn if i do what i have done to my olds motors what the hell am i gonna end up with. my disadvantage is i slap a part on the ls1 and i have to go pay someone to tune it to get the best potential out of the mod i just did like i said before. but i love both my cars, the LS1 is more expensive to play with than the rocket motor but its modern, its gorgeous, easy as hell to find parts for, and its nice to travel in cause the olds doesnt have a good cd player and i dont feel like puttin on in it cause its all original lol. the olds is like drivin on your living room couch though so its got the camaro beat in comfort as far as im concerned. i voted old school cause in my case its less expensive and i know it better, but i still love this LS1 i got.
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TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 1
From: Western Burbs of Detroit
I am all for technology advancements, but there is still something about those monster cubic inch old school motors. LSx is moving towards more cubes as we all know. 370, 383, 402, 408, 427, 441 whats next 500 ci LSx motor. Looks like new school is taking a page out of old schools "theres no replacement for displacement."
I prefer my LS1 motor though for reliability and amazing gas mileage while making 460 rwhp and 420 rwtq SAE
I prefer my LS1 motor though for reliability and amazing gas mileage while making 460 rwhp and 420 rwtq SAE
Originally Posted by Eatinstang4life
Ok guys. These guys give me **** all day long everyday on my car saying That ls1 motors are "expensive junk" They allway say "for the price of an ls1 I can make a old 350 with 600 horsepower bla bla bla" I try to explain to them that they dont even know becasue first of all they have never even prob. been in a ls1 powered car. I understand it is possible to make any engine fast, but they keep hating on me saying "ls1 are hard to work on and they have electronic junk blablabla" I told them its personal preference but they still continuing bashing the late model engines.
Please help me explain to these guys how the ls1 motors are a great inovation on gm's part and how they are not "expensive hards to work on electronically controlled junk" as they would say.
Please help me explain to these guys how the ls1 motors are a great inovation on gm's part and how they are not "expensive hards to work on electronically controlled junk" as they would say.
I like my 430+rwhp summer daily driver...37K on the clock and I have about $18K into including taxes. I don't think that's too expensive considering that's what 4-cylinder cars go for brand new.
I don't think that's too expensive considering that's what 4-cylinder cars go for brand new.
Originally Posted by STL2SLO
If the LS1 is such junk...
Why is GM making high perf. parts out the ***?
Why are all of the resto people that are building cars putting LSx motors in them?
Why is GM making high perf. parts out the ***?
Why are all of the resto people that are building cars putting LSx motors in them?
2. the "resto" people dont. they restore... but modders of older cars have ALWAYS put the latest and greatest in... lookup TPI, L98, LT1, LT4, LT5, ect.....
Originally Posted by allngn_c5
I am all for technology advancements, but there is still something about those monster cubic inch old school motors. LSx is moving towards more cubes as we all know. 370, 383, 402, 408, 427, 441 whats next 500 ci LSx motor. Looks like new school is taking a page out of old schools "theres no replacement for displacement."
I prefer my LS1 motor though for reliability and amazing gas mileage while making 460 rwhp and 420 rwtq SAE
I prefer my LS1 motor though for reliability and amazing gas mileage while making 460 rwhp and 420 rwtq SAE
http://www.samracing.com/500ciLS2.html
I know people the exact same way, one has a 505 BB in his Mid-eighties truck and runs 7.70's 1/8th mile w/ 4.56's and trailered in, my buddies 408 2002 Siverado runs the same times, with Stock heads, mild cam and 4.10s. LSx all the way, if the old ones were so hot, they would still be using them.
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Western Burbs of Detroit
Originally Posted by stdjsw311
actually 500ci has already been done!
http://www.samracing.com/500ciLS2.html
http://www.samracing.com/500ciLS2.html
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 270
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I have a relevant "for instance". I run with a group of "car guys" that with only one exception (me) are "old school". One of our number has a beautiful '66 Chevelle SS with a pro-built stroker 454. Not sure of the actual displacement, but suffice to say, it's big, and built with the best of everything to the tune of about 14k. It's always breaking down driving to area car shows, but that's the price you pay....Well, recently he took it to the neighborhood dyno, and was surprised to see it was putting down under 300 to the tires. He's something of a braggart, and it was pretty funny to top his output by over 150 with a car that only has 346 c.i., and still gets over 27 mpg.
LSX engines rule. PERIOD!!
That is what you should tell them if you want to get a rise out of them....if not....back it up with some cold hard facts.
I would choose to get a rise from them though.
That is what you should tell them if you want to get a rise out of them....if not....back it up with some cold hard facts.
I would choose to get a rise from them though.
I have experience with both Gen 1@2 and the current Gen 3's. While the LS1 is easier to work on, gets better MPG, makes power power, revs higher, smoother the Gen 1 SBC line is closing the gap. AFR just released a 23* SBC head that flows 300CFM with a 195cc intake port. Do the math and it's a stronger piece than the AFR 205 LS1 head with better valve angle and cathedral port design. The AFR SBC head also uses the lightweight 8mm valve, spring and retainers of the LS1 design for rev ability.