Y2K SS #449

What are the advantages of Solid lifters over Hydrolic? I know in the old days solids where the way to go, but with the new hydrolic roller rockers are the expense and hassle of solids really worth it. Please help me to understand thanks.

RyanJ

Solid-
Pro's: Sounds cool, Larger cam with less driveability issues, and i think the ramp rates are faster but i may be wrong on that one.
Con's: More expensive (depending on how you do it) because you need an adjustable valvetrain and new lifters, harsher on valvetrain parts (should check rockers every other oil change to be safe, but Futral has gotten like 10k miles without having to adjust anything.

Hydraulic-
Pro's: Same kind of cam you have in there so theres less things to replace, Several proven grinds out right now to choose from (B1, T1, TR 224)
Con's: Not as cool as a Solid, some problems when you go REALLY big.


Ryan

Crazyquik

Hydralics will pump up at high high revs or collapse under a lot of spring pressure, which is needed if you run a lot of lift.

Hoser

iTrader: (6)

TTT

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

With a solid roller, you can run a cam with extremely fast ramp rates. This will open and close the valves much faster and you will need a spring with more seat pressure. Typically, you cannot do this with hydraulic lifters as they will collapse under large amounts of seat pressure. The ISKY springs I am running have 215lbs. on the seat compared to the 941s which have around 130lbs.

You also get great driveabilty (due to valve seat timing; the valve is off the seat for less time which helps build cylinder pressure) when compared to an equvilant hydraulic cam.

The solid lifters don't bleed down at higher rpms like hydraulic lifters do costing hp/tq.

The solid roller cam I am running is 230/230 .612/.612 112 and it drives just great on the street. I was previously using the Lunati/B1 cam (221/221 .558/.558 114) and they drive nearly identical. If I had a 230/230 hydraulic cam, I more than likely wouldn't be able to say that.

There are a few disadvantages of going the solid roller route. You do have to adjust the valve lash roughly every 6k-10k miles. After we installed the heads/cam, I checked mine after 100 miles and they moved quite a bit. However, this is normal after the intial install. I haven't checked them since, but I have roughly 4k miles on it now and the valvetrain is much quieter than it was before. Car seems to be doing fine. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0"> You will need to purchase new lifters ($300), shaftmount rockers (~$825), camshaft, springs/retainers/pushrods, new valvecovers or spacers, other misc. items, and extra machine work done to the heads. Another disadvantage is that the valvetrain is louder than it would be with an hydraulic setup. This isn't too much of a problem as you really can't hear much over my exhaust. LOL <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

If money really isn't an object, the solid roller is the way to go.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Jason

[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</p>

Black2000WS6

Jasson 98T/A- I was wondering what rpm you are running when you cross the end of the quater mile. I see you are running 4.33 gears this is something I have been thinking about.

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

I am crossing around 6500 or so, but I am using ET Drags which grow a bit more than ET Streets and quite a bit more than drag radials.

Jason

Trace

Jason, what did you do with the passenger side valve cover? I am sure you would have to remove the two baffles for rocker clearance , which would allow oil to be pulled back thru the intake thru the poted vaccum. Did you use a vaccum pump or build a low profile baffle or use a special valve cover?

Thanks
Trace

RyanJ

Ive said this a few times and i guess no one caught it. (most of this info is from Futral Motorsports) You can get away with spending a lot less if you really wanted a solid lifter cam. This is what i would do: if your porting your heads for a full set up, get big *** double springs (the extra machining is $40-50 i heard), find a custom grind solid roller that fits you (be aware of ramp rates as this could effect your spring decision), buy Crane solid lifters ($300), and you can simply add shims under the stock rockers to adjust them (saves $800-900). With ported heads, a solid cam in the neighborhood of 224/228 .xxx/.xxx 112, and the above mentioned stock rockers/shims a certain SS has driven nearly 10k miles and not needed to further adjust the valves. He also uses Comp 941's <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

Futral runs 11.30's i think with a stock shortblock 6-speed.


Ryan

ChrisB

It depends on your spring pressures first of all - we have had quite a few stock rockers grenade under real solid roller springs pressures. (200+ seat/450+ total) - heck, we have even had a few grenade with hydraulic rated springs.

I also don't think shimming is a good idea in general - for valvetrain stability and also for rocker/pushrod angularity.

No question it can work, and may even work without issue in some cases. I just would not feel comfortable recommending it, and want to point out that there are drawbacks.

Chris

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

[quote]Originally posted by Trace:
<strong>Jason, what did you do with the passenger side valve cover? I am sure you would have to remove the two baffles for rocker clearance , which would allow oil to be pulled back thru the intake thru the poted vaccum. Did you use a vaccum pump or build a low profile baffle or use a special valve cover?

Thanks
Trace</strong><hr></blockquote>

Trace, I am using the SAM racing valvecover spacers and we did have to modify the passenger side valvecover to get the needed clearance for the rocker arms. I'm not using a vacuum pump,etc. I haven't had any problems with oil consumption, smoking, etc.

Jason

Colonel

A hydraulic cam in an LS1 is good for NA 9s but I do long for a solid setup and some mid 9s. <img src="images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">

The only disadvantage I see with a solid lift setup is valvetrain adjustments. For some, the extra noise might also not be desirable.

ALLBORENOSTROKE

The adjustments aren't to bad.I am no mechanic and it only took me about an hour to get all mine adjusted right.Go solid Colonel,go solid.

racer7088

I don't think the stockers are gonna last long under solid roller spring pressure. You need to get the Jesel or T and D stuff. It ain't cheap but quality never is. Crane has some setup too but i know nothing about it.

1BADtruck

I agree with the idea of using stock rocker arms\shims with a less agressive camshaft.If one wishes to go to a very agressive camshaft than it be mandatory to use aftermarket rocker arms.When I decided to install the solid cam over a YEAR ago,nobody was using one in a street car and there were no aftermarket rocker arms or lifters avaliable,heck some people thought is was magical thing to put a solid cam in an LS1 <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> My camshaft has only 141 degrees at .200"lift and the 941 springs are set to 165 lbs seat pressure,and the cam only has .580",very small and not as agressive as some of the newer profiles being used.But like I said this combo has been runing over a year with NO parts brakage or problems,which was my goal since it is was my moms daily driver!and will be updated to better stuff very soon <img src="images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0">

The idea of shimming rockers as been around for years and is the practice for street 5.0's,but everybody has their own ideas and opinions.Like people said,Ive seen stock rocker arms break with stock cams\springs.

steve

good info guys...

lets me test ya on this one..

98 z28 with stock displacement engine.
2 speed glide
3000 weight
456 gear
your typical heads intake ect bolt ons.

looking for 6500-6800 trap rpms

what would your cam choice be and why!!!
spring choice?!!

steve frank

SpeedDemon

What's happening Steve. I would not bother with a solid roller camshaft if you are planning on crossing the line at 6500-6800. A hydraulic will get you there pretty readily. I will give you one guess on the heads that will be the best for the situation. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
BTW, Give me a call tomorrow or email me your number. I have a few questions for you. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">