What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114??????
12-05-2001, 11:01 AM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? Raughammer, I was reading your cam page (again, third time!) and I noticed that you listed the B1 cam as having a 112 IC, but having 4 degrees of advance ground in. Doesn’t that contradict it’s self? I mean, wouldn’t a cam like the B1 with a 114 LSA need to have a 110 IC to have 4 degrees advance instead of a 112 IC like you listed in your post on your cam page?
I could be totally wrong here, but I was just wondering if there was some special “exception to the rule” for the B1 cam or something???...
I could be totally wrong here, but I was just wondering if there was some special “exception to the rule” for the B1 cam or something???...
12-05-2001, 01:30 PM
#62
Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? [quote]Originally posted by Chris G:
<strong>
Josh, he was talking about Ron's red SS that runs 11s and traps 119mph on the 10 bolt and ZO6 clutch. Ron has a big split duration cam on a 110lsa...and yes, I think it is a crutch for the somewhat poorly flowing very high compression heads. The car runs its *** off though.
Chris G</strong><hr></blockquote>
Chris, I am curious as to how you guy's know this since Roy and Pat(RP) won't even tell Ron, the owner of the car, the specs of the cam. <img src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" border="0" alt="[boring]" />
<strong>
Josh, he was talking about Ron's red SS that runs 11s and traps 119mph on the 10 bolt and ZO6 clutch. Ron has a big split duration cam on a 110lsa...and yes, I think it is a crutch for the somewhat poorly flowing very high compression heads. The car runs its *** off though.
Chris G</strong><hr></blockquote>
Chris, I am curious as to how you guy's know this since Roy and Pat(RP) won't even tell Ron, the owner of the car, the specs of the cam. <img src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" border="0" alt="[boring]" />
12-05-2001, 02:58 PM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? [quote]Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>you listed the B1 cam as having a 112 IC, but having 4 degrees of advance ground in. Doesn’t that contradict it’s self? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Please tell me exactly where that typo is.
You are correct. The B1 is 114 l/s with a 110 I/C.
We grind these cams with 4 degrees of advance built in for the POS timing chains we have to use.
Again... please tell me EXCATLY where that typo is so I can fix it. I did not see it on my cursory persusal.
Thnx
The Great Campbellini
<img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
<strong>you listed the B1 cam as having a 112 IC, but having 4 degrees of advance ground in. Doesn’t that contradict it’s self? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Please tell me exactly where that typo is.
You are correct. The B1 is 114 l/s with a 110 I/C.
We grind these cams with 4 degrees of advance built in for the POS timing chains we have to use.
Again... please tell me EXCATLY where that typo is so I can fix it. I did not see it on my cursory persusal.
Thnx
The Great Campbellini
<img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
12-05-2001, 03:41 PM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? Raughammer, here is the quote from your cam page that contains the error:
[quote]Here is some cam info that I gave to a couple of buds, these are MY opinions... but I though the info would be useful to some other folks that are trying to make a cam choice...
Hi There, 'Hammer, I saw this post you made:
My recommendation?
Go with something proven. I don't know all your goals or even your mechanical aptitude.
These are just what I have seen...not some computer simulation.
Hammer Cam: Dur 222/222 @ .050, 566/566 112 l/s and 108 i/c is a good one.
It makes good use of fast ramps yet still keeps the duration and l/s down in a usable "street racers" (IMO) range. 4 degrees of advance is ground in. This cam took me to the 10.8's and yet is VERY small compared to some of the others you will see listed on this website.
The T1/B1 cams also have more than proven themselves. There are some VERY fast cars running these cams. Dur 221/221 @ .050, 558/558 (112 l/s and 108 i/c for the T1) (114 l/s and 112 i/c for the B1) Both cams have 4 degrees advance ground in.<hr></blockquote>
It's towards the bottom of the page, and I bolded the exact part <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
[quote]Here is some cam info that I gave to a couple of buds, these are MY opinions... but I though the info would be useful to some other folks that are trying to make a cam choice...
Hi There, 'Hammer, I saw this post you made:
My recommendation?
Go with something proven. I don't know all your goals or even your mechanical aptitude.
These are just what I have seen...not some computer simulation.
Hammer Cam: Dur 222/222 @ .050, 566/566 112 l/s and 108 i/c is a good one.
It makes good use of fast ramps yet still keeps the duration and l/s down in a usable "street racers" (IMO) range. 4 degrees of advance is ground in. This cam took me to the 10.8's and yet is VERY small compared to some of the others you will see listed on this website.
The T1/B1 cams also have more than proven themselves. There are some VERY fast cars running these cams. Dur 221/221 @ .050, 558/558 (112 l/s and 108 i/c for the T1) (114 l/s and 112 i/c for the B1) Both cams have 4 degrees advance ground in.<hr></blockquote>
It's towards the bottom of the page, and I bolded the exact part <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
12-05-2001, 06:32 PM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? [quote]Originally posted by Raughammer:
We grind these cams with 4 degrees of advance built in for the POS timing chains we have to use.
<img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <hr></blockquote>
[raises hand]
I have a question!!
Could you clarify the need for the 4 degrees advance, its confusing me. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
And what if you were to swap in an aftermarket timing chain during your cam install? How would that affect performance with the +4 advance in there? Should you replace the chain/gears during the install?
Last but not least, do all these details really make that big of a difference? I am just trying to pick a cam for the future on an 02 M6 car that will give me as much gain in hp/tq without requiring programming. Idle quality has to be good, yet beefy, but not choking on itself and almost stalling. Those are my only concerns. <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
We grind these cams with 4 degrees of advance built in for the POS timing chains we have to use.
<img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <hr></blockquote>
[raises hand]
I have a question!!
Could you clarify the need for the 4 degrees advance, its confusing me. <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
And what if you were to swap in an aftermarket timing chain during your cam install? How would that affect performance with the +4 advance in there? Should you replace the chain/gears during the install?
Last but not least, do all these details really make that big of a difference? I am just trying to pick a cam for the future on an 02 M6 car that will give me as much gain in hp/tq without requiring programming. Idle quality has to be good, yet beefy, but not choking on itself and almost stalling. Those are my only concerns. <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
12-05-2001, 08:15 PM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? After all of this great talk I am lrft wondering does Lunati grind cams with advance built in? If so how much?
12-05-2001, 08:59 PM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? Originally posted by RED QUASAR:
Could you clarify the need for the 4 degrees advance, its confusing me.
--------------------------------------------------
..I'll try <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0"> The stock chain is a POS. It gets loose and develops "slack". This allows the cam to lag behind the crank as to where it's supposed to be at a given time. A few years ago when we were all trying to find these magic numbers that worked... 4 degrees advance ground in to make up for that "slack" seemed to put us "On the money".
It so far has proven to be the "right thing to do". A cam that falls behind... because of the slack in the chain finds it self in a "retarded" position. It is behind where it needs to be. The 4 degrees ground in pulls the cam, slack be damned, back up to where it should be. (or dang close).
Since about any chain will "loosen up" over time. The 4 degrees of "safety net" keeps us around the target.
A killer SILENT gear set up, or UNSTRETCHABLE chain would be the answer to remedy all these problemo's, but until these so far unobtainable for the common man items become readily available to "Six-pak Joe"... I will continue to recommend the "4 degrees advance ground in" cams.
Clear? or clear as mud? <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
---------------------------------------------------
And what if you were to swap in an aftermarket timing chain during your cam install? How would that affect performance with the +4 advance in there? Should you replace the chain/gears during the install?
----------
Well, swapping in a good/new timing chain would be a good thing... some folks cant/wont afford/spend the money on this...but it IS a good idea. But... the new chain? it will eventually stretch too.
How would it affect performance? Well so far no one has complained of low numbers when the cam might be a little to advanced. But a little too retarded I KNOW will kill your HP numbers. Remember, there is always compromises...you will NEVER have the perfect cam or perfect converter for EVERY situation.
----------------------------------------------
Last but not least, do all these details really make that big of a difference?
-----------
YES! a 4 degree retarded cam in a combo that is not set up for it... would make **** poor power.(IMO)
=================================================
I am just trying to pick a cam for the future on an 02 M6 car that will give me as much gain in hp/tq without requiring programming. Idle quality has to be good, yet beefy, but not choking on itself and almost stalling. Those are my only concerns.
-------------------------
Most any of the afore mentioned cams in this thread will accomplish that...Will you have to fiddle with the throttle body some? Usually. But with an M6, you have a myriad of choices to pick from. Much more so than an A4 owner.
RPM WS6, the typo has been fixed. Thank you for your help. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
John "Raughammer" Campbell
Could you clarify the need for the 4 degrees advance, its confusing me.
--------------------------------------------------
..I'll try <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0"> The stock chain is a POS. It gets loose and develops "slack". This allows the cam to lag behind the crank as to where it's supposed to be at a given time. A few years ago when we were all trying to find these magic numbers that worked... 4 degrees advance ground in to make up for that "slack" seemed to put us "On the money".
It so far has proven to be the "right thing to do". A cam that falls behind... because of the slack in the chain finds it self in a "retarded" position. It is behind where it needs to be. The 4 degrees ground in pulls the cam, slack be damned, back up to where it should be. (or dang close).
Since about any chain will "loosen up" over time. The 4 degrees of "safety net" keeps us around the target.
A killer SILENT gear set up, or UNSTRETCHABLE chain would be the answer to remedy all these problemo's, but until these so far unobtainable for the common man items become readily available to "Six-pak Joe"... I will continue to recommend the "4 degrees advance ground in" cams.
Clear? or clear as mud? <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
---------------------------------------------------
And what if you were to swap in an aftermarket timing chain during your cam install? How would that affect performance with the +4 advance in there? Should you replace the chain/gears during the install?
----------
Well, swapping in a good/new timing chain would be a good thing... some folks cant/wont afford/spend the money on this...but it IS a good idea. But... the new chain? it will eventually stretch too.
How would it affect performance? Well so far no one has complained of low numbers when the cam might be a little to advanced. But a little too retarded I KNOW will kill your HP numbers. Remember, there is always compromises...you will NEVER have the perfect cam or perfect converter for EVERY situation.
----------------------------------------------
Last but not least, do all these details really make that big of a difference?
-----------
YES! a 4 degree retarded cam in a combo that is not set up for it... would make **** poor power.(IMO)
=================================================
I am just trying to pick a cam for the future on an 02 M6 car that will give me as much gain in hp/tq without requiring programming. Idle quality has to be good, yet beefy, but not choking on itself and almost stalling. Those are my only concerns.
-------------------------
Most any of the afore mentioned cams in this thread will accomplish that...Will you have to fiddle with the throttle body some? Usually. But with an M6, you have a myriad of choices to pick from. Much more so than an A4 owner.
RPM WS6, the typo has been fixed. Thank you for your help. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
John "Raughammer" Campbell
12-05-2001, 11:07 PM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? [quote]Originally posted by Raughammer:
Clear? or clear as mud? <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0"> <hr></blockquote>
CLEAR!
thankx!!
<img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: RED QUASAR ]
[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: RED QUASAR ]</p>
Clear? or clear as mud? <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0"> <hr></blockquote>
CLEAR!
thankx!!
<img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: RED QUASAR ]
[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: RED QUASAR ]</p>
12-06-2001, 12:50 AM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? [quote]Originally posted by DamianLS1:
<strong>
Jim, if you're talking about Ron Mowen's car, his cam is a 112 lsa.
Josh</strong><hr></blockquote>
Josh, he was talking about Ron's red SS that runs 11s and traps 119mph on the 10 bolt and ZO6 clutch. Ron has a big split duration cam on a 110lsa...and yes, I think it is a crutch for the somewhat poorly flowing very high compression heads. The car runs its *** off though.
Chris G
<strong>
Jim, if you're talking about Ron Mowen's car, his cam is a 112 lsa.
Josh</strong><hr></blockquote>
Josh, he was talking about Ron's red SS that runs 11s and traps 119mph on the 10 bolt and ZO6 clutch. Ron has a big split duration cam on a 110lsa...and yes, I think it is a crutch for the somewhat poorly flowing very high compression heads. The car runs its *** off though.
Chris G
12-06-2001, 07:58 AM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? [quote]Originally posted by Raughammer:
<strong>RPM WS6, the typo has been fixed. Thank you for your help. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
John "Raughammer" Campbell</strong><hr></blockquote>
No problem <img src="images/icons/cool.gif" border="0"> Just glad I could help you for a change <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
<strong>RPM WS6, the typo has been fixed. Thank you for your help. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
John "Raughammer" Campbell</strong><hr></blockquote>
No problem <img src="images/icons/cool.gif" border="0"> Just glad I could help you for a change <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
12-06-2001, 06:46 PM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? Just a note, I failed the emmision test with a T-1 cam,FLP headers(with cats),stock heads,stock desreened maf and stock tuning. I hope everyone else has better luck than me. <img src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" border="0" alt="[judgement]" />
12-06-2001, 07:46 PM
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Re: What do you think of a .563/.563//222/222//114?????? [quote]Originally posted by TexassTA:
<strong>Just a note, I failed the emmision test with a T-1 cam,FLP headers(with cats),stock heads,stock desreened maf and stock tuning. I hope everyone else has better luck than me. <img src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" border="0" alt="[judgement]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
sorry to hear that <img src="images/icons/frown.gif" border="0">
no emissions testing up here <img src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" border="0" alt="[jester]" /> <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
<strong>Just a note, I failed the emmision test with a T-1 cam,FLP headers(with cats),stock heads,stock desreened maf and stock tuning. I hope everyone else has better luck than me. <img src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" border="0" alt="[judgement]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
sorry to hear that <img src="images/icons/frown.gif" border="0">
no emissions testing up here <img src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" border="0" alt="[jester]" /> <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
