RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

FWIW, my installer (very reputable shop and site sponsor, Speed inc.) told me that basically any 112lsa cam WILL need tuning in an auto to idle right, period. He said just drilling the TB won’t be enough for it.

Is he wrong? Probably not, but I don’t know as I’ve never tried it. So let’s see what Raughammer has to say...

Wicked Ls1

TTT

Wicked Ls1

Okay well I have spoken to a few reliable sources (NOT JOHN SINCE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU TOOK THE DAY OFF!!!! <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> Just kiddin' But I have found that I can install the hammer cam on either one of these cars. The cars will start, and run, but I will have big problems with the idle. Most likely it will die out everytime the car comes to a stop. For minimal solutions, I can drill our the throttle body plate (just a little!) and see if that helps. Next step would be to tweak on the throttle body idle screw and raise the rpms (just a little so I won't set off any codes.) If that doesn't work, I have to get a HPP3. If that doesn't work, custom PCM tuning, here I come!!!!

Jason

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

FWIW when I added my S1 heads and TR 224 112 cam, I ran into PCM problems.

You can always raise the idle by drilling/idle set screw, but you still may get an SES (unable to achieve desired idle speed and/or random misfires) and you could have lock-up and low rpm stumble issues.

A 114 LSA increases the likelihood of not having problems.

Your friend could go with a 216/216 114 or 218/218 114 and keep the idle speed between 650 - 750 rpm and get a lope and not have too much in the way of drivability problems.

FYI: Raughammer has been cranking a lot of hours at work. Be patient and he'll get to this. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</p>

RyanJ

a) you should get a HPP3 for any cam. the cam will run you rich and its a good idea to run the non-RFG tune after the install. not to mention RAISING THE REVLIMITER AND SHIFTPOINTS... <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

b) HPP3 does NOTHING for idle

c) a 112lsa cam will run but you will need to drill the tb and probably two-foot the car at a light.

d) do either of you have converters? probably gonna need one first...dont want the car dragging itself away <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

e) just get the tuning!!! (preferably MTI, so you can still run the HPP3 and they have the most experience with their cams). why is everyone so anti-tuning? say you get Ed Wright to tune the car. sure you may have to send it back if your shiftpoints or whatever are wrong, but look at the benifits. No idle problems, you can get your TC to lock-up faster, after you add up a HPP3 ($200-300), O2 sims ($50-75), MAFT ($150), and all the time screwing with the idle, the $450 tuning pays for itself. and you can run an LS6 intake later and remove your AIR and EGR system all together.


Ryan

Ryan

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Just a quick question about TC lock-up. During the custom tune, all they do to end the lock up issues is remove the PO300 code, correct? Isn’t the misfiring the only reason that the TC won’t lock right?

Matt98SS

lots of benefits to custom programming

I don't have it with a 112lsa. Cold start idle, well good luck with out it, just have to rev it up a bit and let it warm up a tad then its good to go, no stalling, surging, etc

RyanJ

what the hell? i wrote my name twice....long day <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0">


matt has a little tech-ls1 injuneering in his ride <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> , but like i and someone else said..no problem making it run...just wont idle real well. up to you really.

all i really know that ed does with lock up is move it down for bug tc guys. im sure emiinating the misfire codes (which he does) will kill that code if that is the source.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

[quote]Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>Just a quick question about TC lock-up. During the custom tune, all they do to end the lock up issues is remove the PO300 code, correct? Isn’t the misfiring the only reason that the TC won’t lock right?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Proper tuning corrects for the different airflow characteristics caused by a cam that fools the computer into thinking there is a different load on the engine and therefore unlocks the converter.

Wicked Ls1

John,
I'm dealing with two cars here.

1)
99' Trans Am
Automatic
Air Lid
Ported MAF
Corsa Exhaust
FLP Headers (I was finally talked into it <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

and

2)
00' Trans Am
Automatic
Air Lid
Borla Exhaust (wide open)
Mac Headers

Now we both want the hammer cam. I want power and do not mind lope. He wants big bad lope and does not care about power (he just cares about looks and sound :mad <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> At anyrate, we are capable of doing the installs ourselves but what I am worried about it PCM programming. We both want to avoid that at all costs unless are cars will not run without it. This is what I have been led to believe by quite a few people "Oh with cam specs of the hammer, you definetly need PCM programming." So this makes me think our cars will not even start after the install. Can we bypass the computing by just drilling a larger hole in the throttle body or something?

Thanks,
Jason

Memphis Raines

I,ve got the Hammer cam in my 99 auto T/A, from my experiences drivability, converter lock up,& performance will suffer greatly. a buddy of mine tried w/o tuning & his converter stayed unlocked all the time, along with ses light troubles galore. I've MTI tuning with no problems. My opinion the tuning is a must.

Wicked Ls1

Thanks, MTI has a sale for us so I'm going to go get the cam on Saturday and pay for the tuning too, only $350.00. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

-Jason

Wicked Ls1

Thanks John, I think I'll do the install, see what I can do with, and if she if too much of a pain I'll take in for a good programming!

Thanks Everyone,
Jason

Raughammer

[quote]Originally posted by Wicked Ls1:
<strong>Thanks John, I think I'll do the install, see what I can do with, and if she if too much of a pain I'll take in for a good programming!

Thanks Everyone,
Jason</strong><hr></blockquote>


No prob, thats kind of what i did, I wanted to see how the cam would affect the drivability. It was not bad at all... though it did take some finaggling with the motor/TB to make it work well.

The programming definately helps. Especially if you want to get rid of all that air pump, EGR, tq-mgt, knock probs. Before you do your PCM upgrade. Do you home work to get it right the first time.

John "Sprayin Nitrous and expecting people to think he’s running those times and numbers with “Stock internals” and sh*t" Campbell <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" />

gwj

-John "Sprayin Nitrous and expecting people to think he’s running those times and numbers with “Stock internals” and sh*t" Campbell -

LOL

Raughammer

Jason.. do you NEED PCM reprogramming? well, in a word, NO. Will it make your life easier with it? YES.
The cars, becuase they are A4's, have a low idle from the factory. You will need to set that up to around 900. (850 is the minimum in my mind, the lower the idle, the more the lope.)

If you have the time and the patience, you can make the hammer work on an A4 with out programming. I did not have tuning on mine in the beginning. During driving at that time I would get mis-fire codes... but it would run great. I never suffered any lock up problems.. even with my big ol' Yank TP4400. I DID have to let it warm up before I could just take off and drive... unless I was to "two-foot" it.

If a man has the time to work with it... he can do it. If you REALLY want to avoid the majority the PCM probs... look at getting the Hammer on a 114 l/s. That is what I recommend for lots of A4 folks. The hammer has a pretty good idle, not a choppy as many cams of its size. Some find it annoyingly smooth. (I guess some folks have a warped idea of smooth). The Hammer on a 114 would be even smoother and cause lots less SES codes. Though you would be giving up a little mid range power.

Most power? Hammer on a 112.
Lest money out of pocket? Hammer on a 114 and no PCM tuning. Up to you.

Hey, look at getting an MTI oil pump while you are there. They work great. It's a lot better then having to order the pump from out of state and you can pick it up while your there.

Converter? The 3200 your looking at is a good converter. I know folks who are using it and the Hammer/MTI heads and running low 11's. It is definatley not TOO big.

Sorry for the delay in answering... I have been working MUCHO over time. Hey, I gotta pay for my new round of mods! <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />


............

I am worried about it PCM programming. We both want to avoid that at all costs unless are cars will not run without it. This is what I have been led to believe by quite a few people "Oh with cam specs of the hammer, you definetly need PCM programming." So this makes me think our cars will not even start after the install. Can we bypass the computing by just drilling a larger hole in the throttle body or something?

Thanks, Jason

[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Raughammer ]</p>