Initial FLP longtube impressions
12-20-2001, 03:24 PM
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Initial FLP longtube impressions My initial feelings of the FLP longtube headers is that I'm not impressed at all. I have a few complaints.
1) The ypipe collector is stupidly small, then necks up to a bigger opening. Whats the point of a 3" connection to your catback if it was 2.5" right before that? STUPID.
2) AIR tube bolt holes are tapped, *then* the headers are coated. This means coating gets in the threads, and your bolts have a tough time threading in. So, you have to manually crank a bolt through there first to get the gunk out, then you can put your air tubes on.
3) WHY are they not using studs for the AIR and EGR flanges? Time and time again complains have been voiced about stripping the threads in the flanges due to how difficult it is to get a wrench in there at the right angle. Studs would solve the problem perfectly, it'd eliminate the annoyance of lining the gasket and the bolt holes up, and complaint #2 would vanish at the same time.
4) The V-clamps they give you to hold their stuff together is ghetto. The bolts are sooo short, so you end up having to hammer these clamps on and squeezing them all you can just to get the bolt/nut started. Then, once its all said and done, the things leak. After 3 passes of re-tightening stuff, I've gotten rid of about 70% of the exhaust leaks. Guess i'll have to make a few more passes at this. GHETTO.
5) The ypipe is SITTING on the damn floor pans causing mad-crazy style vibration. I have wedged heater hose between the ypipe and the floor pans, so now its just a muffled teeth chattering vibration, but its still there. Common solutions have involved huge hammers. GHETTO as well.
Now, for $600 none of the above would really bother me too much, but for $12fooking89.99 these bastards better be downright PERFECT, to the point where you couldnt fathom a longtube header solution any better. The FLP's failed to do this.
And fwiw, my car sounded a lot better with the Mac midlengths over these FLP's. Sounds like a truck now.
Disclaimer: I personally have only dealt with 4-5 different headers in my time on my mustang and my camaro, so my header experience isn't really vast. In addition, most of my points have been brought up before, and I'm re-echoing them in an attempt to get FLP to recognize people are wanting what they pay for. I should also add these are my initial impressions. 3 months from now this stuff wont bother me since I'll have fixed it all, but the hassle right now is totally unnessisary.
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: jmX ]</p>
1) The ypipe collector is stupidly small, then necks up to a bigger opening. Whats the point of a 3" connection to your catback if it was 2.5" right before that? STUPID.
2) AIR tube bolt holes are tapped, *then* the headers are coated. This means coating gets in the threads, and your bolts have a tough time threading in. So, you have to manually crank a bolt through there first to get the gunk out, then you can put your air tubes on.
3) WHY are they not using studs for the AIR and EGR flanges? Time and time again complains have been voiced about stripping the threads in the flanges due to how difficult it is to get a wrench in there at the right angle. Studs would solve the problem perfectly, it'd eliminate the annoyance of lining the gasket and the bolt holes up, and complaint #2 would vanish at the same time.
4) The V-clamps they give you to hold their stuff together is ghetto. The bolts are sooo short, so you end up having to hammer these clamps on and squeezing them all you can just to get the bolt/nut started. Then, once its all said and done, the things leak. After 3 passes of re-tightening stuff, I've gotten rid of about 70% of the exhaust leaks. Guess i'll have to make a few more passes at this. GHETTO.
5) The ypipe is SITTING on the damn floor pans causing mad-crazy style vibration. I have wedged heater hose between the ypipe and the floor pans, so now its just a muffled teeth chattering vibration, but its still there. Common solutions have involved huge hammers. GHETTO as well.
Now, for $600 none of the above would really bother me too much, but for $12fooking89.99 these bastards better be downright PERFECT, to the point where you couldnt fathom a longtube header solution any better. The FLP's failed to do this.
And fwiw, my car sounded a lot better with the Mac midlengths over these FLP's. Sounds like a truck now.
Disclaimer: I personally have only dealt with 4-5 different headers in my time on my mustang and my camaro, so my header experience isn't really vast. In addition, most of my points have been brought up before, and I'm re-echoing them in an attempt to get FLP to recognize people are wanting what they pay for. I should also add these are my initial impressions. 3 months from now this stuff wont bother me since I'll have fixed it all, but the hassle right now is totally unnessisary.
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: jmX ]</p>
12-20-2001, 03:52 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions I love my FLP's but I do have little things I don't like...
The V-flange clamps are Ghetto as you said...they are a pain in the *** to take on and off and they don't even seal that well...the Cats or off roads should come with some type of gasket or sealant to put between....
I also have the vibration issue, I just got a crowbar and pryed the thing down...problem solved...
Other than that I have no issues with them..
The V-flange clamps are Ghetto as you said...they are a pain in the *** to take on and off and they don't even seal that well...the Cats or off roads should come with some type of gasket or sealant to put between....
I also have the vibration issue, I just got a crowbar and pryed the thing down...problem solved...
Other than that I have no issues with them..
12-20-2001, 04:05 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions I don't like the TTS headers either. Macs are the way to go for most folks. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
12-20-2001, 04:35 PM
#4
Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions [quote]Originally posted by jmX:
<strong>My initial feelings of the FLP longtube headers is that I'm not impressed at all. I have a few complaints.
1) The ypipe collector is stupidly small, then necks up to a bigger opening. Whats the point of a 3" connection to your catback if it was 2.5" right before that? STUPID.
</strong>
Seems that there isnt a good Y-pipe in the whole market. I have the Grott Y-pipe and its CLEARLY and afterthought. THe Y pipe collector is just fugly. If someone made a nice group of 2x3" to 3" or 4" Y-pipes, available for SLP, Grott, FLP, and TTS(?), I sure would be a customer. Something that can hang on a hanger from the chassis and uses a flowmaster D-port collector. I'd pay good cash for that, and I think someone else would too. Maybe Ive come up with a business case... ;-)
<strong>
2) AIR tube bolt holes are tapped, *then* the headers are coated. This means coating gets in the threads, and your bolts have a tough time threading in. So, you have to manually crank a bolt through there first to get the gunk out, then you can put your air tubes on.
</strong>
<strong>
3) WHY are they not using studs for the AIR and EGR flanges? Time and time again complains have been voiced about stripping the threads in the flanges due to how difficult it is to get a wrench in there at the right angle. Studs would solve the problem perfectly, it'd eliminate the annoyance of lining the gasket and the bolt holes up, and complaint #2 would vanish at the same time.
</strong>
Yeah, thats always a problem when you coat headers yourself, but if they are going to do it for you, you would think they could run a tap through each one...
Since they dont, and its ghetto, take a drive in that fancy lookin stang over to Austin Bolt (I know its up north...but...), hand them a AIR and EGR bolt, and tell them you want 7 studs that size and 7 really good quality nuts to go one them. $3 or under, probably M8 or M10, maybe 2cm long. Locktite them in, bolt the stuff down...YOU are a master of your own destiny! ;-)
This may seem rediculous if you've paid $1300, but I had to do this after paying 23k$ for a motorcycle. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
<strong>
4) The V-clamps they give you to hold their stuff together is ghetto. The bolts are sooo short, so you end up having to hammer these clamps on and squeezing them all you can just to get the bolt/nut started. Then, once its all said and done, the things leak. After 3 passes of re-tightening stuff, I've gotten rid of about 70% of the exhaust leaks. Guess i'll have to make a few more passes at this. GHETTO.
5) The ypipe is SITTING on the damn floor pans causing mad-crazy style vibration. I have wedged heater hose between the ypipe and the floor pans, so now its just a muffled teeth chattering vibration, but its still there. Common solutions have involved huge hammers. GHETTO as well.
</strong>
I really REALLY should get in the business of making really nice Y pipes. Why people that bend header primaries to micro-tolerances have to SUCK at Y-pipes, I cannot fathom.
<strong>
Now, for $600 none of the above would really bother me too much, but for $12fooking89.99 these bastards better be downright PERFECT, to the point where you couldnt fathom a longtube header solution any better. The FLP's failed to do this.
And fwiw, my car sounded a lot better with the Mac midlengths over these FLP's. Sounds like a truck now.
</strong>
Hooker and Edelbrock are still in business because they can make headers for vehicles for under *$200* that dont have these problems. Oh well. THe market will bear what the market will bear...
<hr></blockquote>
comments brought to you by:
chris
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Visceral ]</p>
<strong>My initial feelings of the FLP longtube headers is that I'm not impressed at all. I have a few complaints.
1) The ypipe collector is stupidly small, then necks up to a bigger opening. Whats the point of a 3" connection to your catback if it was 2.5" right before that? STUPID.
</strong>
Seems that there isnt a good Y-pipe in the whole market. I have the Grott Y-pipe and its CLEARLY and afterthought. THe Y pipe collector is just fugly. If someone made a nice group of 2x3" to 3" or 4" Y-pipes, available for SLP, Grott, FLP, and TTS(?), I sure would be a customer. Something that can hang on a hanger from the chassis and uses a flowmaster D-port collector. I'd pay good cash for that, and I think someone else would too. Maybe Ive come up with a business case... ;-)
<strong>
2) AIR tube bolt holes are tapped, *then* the headers are coated. This means coating gets in the threads, and your bolts have a tough time threading in. So, you have to manually crank a bolt through there first to get the gunk out, then you can put your air tubes on.
</strong>
<strong>
3) WHY are they not using studs for the AIR and EGR flanges? Time and time again complains have been voiced about stripping the threads in the flanges due to how difficult it is to get a wrench in there at the right angle. Studs would solve the problem perfectly, it'd eliminate the annoyance of lining the gasket and the bolt holes up, and complaint #2 would vanish at the same time.
</strong>
Yeah, thats always a problem when you coat headers yourself, but if they are going to do it for you, you would think they could run a tap through each one...
Since they dont, and its ghetto, take a drive in that fancy lookin stang over to Austin Bolt (I know its up north...but...), hand them a AIR and EGR bolt, and tell them you want 7 studs that size and 7 really good quality nuts to go one them. $3 or under, probably M8 or M10, maybe 2cm long. Locktite them in, bolt the stuff down...YOU are a master of your own destiny! ;-)
This may seem rediculous if you've paid $1300, but I had to do this after paying 23k$ for a motorcycle. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
<strong>
4) The V-clamps they give you to hold their stuff together is ghetto. The bolts are sooo short, so you end up having to hammer these clamps on and squeezing them all you can just to get the bolt/nut started. Then, once its all said and done, the things leak. After 3 passes of re-tightening stuff, I've gotten rid of about 70% of the exhaust leaks. Guess i'll have to make a few more passes at this. GHETTO.
5) The ypipe is SITTING on the damn floor pans causing mad-crazy style vibration. I have wedged heater hose between the ypipe and the floor pans, so now its just a muffled teeth chattering vibration, but its still there. Common solutions have involved huge hammers. GHETTO as well.
</strong>
I really REALLY should get in the business of making really nice Y pipes. Why people that bend header primaries to micro-tolerances have to SUCK at Y-pipes, I cannot fathom.
<strong>
Now, for $600 none of the above would really bother me too much, but for $12fooking89.99 these bastards better be downright PERFECT, to the point where you couldnt fathom a longtube header solution any better. The FLP's failed to do this.
And fwiw, my car sounded a lot better with the Mac midlengths over these FLP's. Sounds like a truck now.
</strong>
Hooker and Edelbrock are still in business because they can make headers for vehicles for under *$200* that dont have these problems. Oh well. THe market will bear what the market will bear...
<hr></blockquote>
comments brought to you by:
chris
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Visceral ]</p>
12-20-2001, 04:42 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions Man, that really sucks, I was planning on getting some FLP's in the near future, but i may have to rethink that thought a little more <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0"> thanks for info, i don't want to have to put up with any of that nonense you went through.
12-20-2001, 04:50 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions While my setup wouldn't do for most folks, I couldn't be happier with my Dynatech headers, Dynatech 12" collectors, and Flowmaster one chamber race mufflers/dumps...
It's noisy, but it damn sure gets the job done!
It's noisy, but it damn sure gets the job done!
12-20-2001, 05:16 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions Don't forget about the bolt on the steering collum. There is nothing like pulling out into trafick and having your steering wheel get stuck in the turn position. <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0"> My car aslo has the banging Y-pipe. I think I have a good idea on how to repair that. I don't want to try and bend it down because I am worried that will make it harder to swap out the cats.
Jason
Jason
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12-20-2001, 06:44 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions Yeah, i wasn't impressed with my FLP's either. I have all the same minor problems listed above, but if you think thats bad try dealing with their customer service. When i recieved mine they sent them to the wrong address a mile down the street(wrong st. #) and they were wrong, belonged to another customer. I emailed them seeing that it was friday night, when they finally returned my call on WEDNESDAY the lady was real snotty, and i quote "the reason it took two weeks to get them is because we get vacations too you know!" So two weeks later i finally got the correct headers, one and a half months later i got the convertors, they were on backorder for a couple weeks but they forgot to ship them for a month! and guess were they shipped them too...the wrong address again! And yes my credit card was billed the day i ordered them, hell i paid my credit card bill before i had the headers.
I hope this doesn't sound like a flame because i do like the headers, but i would love them if it weren't for the service i got.
I hope this doesn't sound like a flame because i do like the headers, but i would love them if it weren't for the service i got.
12-20-2001, 07:02 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions I really feel that we are being gouged by these companys that make headers for the LS1. The price they charge these things should be perfect. And I dont want to hear about how much all the R&D crap cost, hell its just some bended up pipes that fit like ****. I hope the mew hooker set up works well and they sell them for a lot less money which will force the rip off artists to lower their prices. <img src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" border="0" alt="[judgement]" />
12-20-2001, 07:08 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions [quote]Originally posted by GeorgeC:
<strong>While my setup wouldn't do for most folks, I couldn't be happier with my Dynatech headers, Dynatech 12" collectors, and Flowmaster one chamber race mufflers/dumps...
It's noisy, but it damn sure gets the job done!</strong><hr></blockquote>
George I'd love to see some pics of your setup!
I opted for a custom dual 3" into a 3.5 in collector y-pipe behind the stepped headers. Initial results looked real good too.
<strong>While my setup wouldn't do for most folks, I couldn't be happier with my Dynatech headers, Dynatech 12" collectors, and Flowmaster one chamber race mufflers/dumps...
It's noisy, but it damn sure gets the job done!</strong><hr></blockquote>
George I'd love to see some pics of your setup!
I opted for a custom dual 3" into a 3.5 in collector y-pipe behind the stepped headers. Initial results looked real good too.
12-20-2001, 07:15 PM
#12
Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions I got mine, though I havent installed them yet. They look real good. Dunno how they will fit though, but I will find out.
The new hookers, look real good too. They cost 700$ for just the headers I believe. Then buy Y-pipe(with or without cats? who knows) You will probably spend $100 or $200 less.
Still expensive though.
Casey
The new hookers, look real good too. They cost 700$ for just the headers I believe. Then buy Y-pipe(with or without cats? who knows) You will probably spend $100 or $200 less.
Still expensive though.
Casey
12-20-2001, 07:53 PM
#14
Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions I agree that there are some issues that need to be dealt with. Would that keep me from buying another set? NO WAY The ground clearance with the FLP stuff is AWESOME. It tucks up a LOT better than my Mac stuff did. Let's not forget the power potential that the FLP's give you over the Macs. You won't have to worry with changing headers later on down the road if you go with a powerful setup, like I had to on my T/A. I picked up 40 RWHP and RWTQ in the mid-range over the Macs with my 383, and with a looser converter, it still made 10+ RWHP and RWTQ at 7,000 RPM. Those were the smallest gains that I saw.
I was talking with Jeff at MTI when I was getting my FLPs installed, and he said that they've seen NO power difference on their stage II heads/cam setups by cutting the collector off. He said that they're still seeing right at 425 RWHP or so w/ the FLP collector in place vs. welding in a Flowmaster collector, FWIW. However, I think it would be VERY cool to see an optional 3" y-pipe offered with their headers for those pushing a lot of power via forced induction, added cubes, etc. It would be the only 3" y-pipe on the market that I know of.
Sure, the V-clamps are hard to work with, but it still gives you the ability to swap between cats and an ORP. This is important for me since I like to run around with no cats but have to pass a sniffer test in Dallas County. Even then, their cats have been proven to flow really well. That's something that Mac and TTS can't say. I know that the Macs were proven to flow WORSE than the factory cats! <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0">
ZMan - I'm REALLY surprised that you had any customer service problems with FLP. That's a RARITY because I typically hear nothing but great things about their willingness to help, get parts out, etc. It sucks that you did experience that, though.
On a sidenote, FLP has been SWAMPED for quite a while and is currently experiencing "growing pains". I have a feeling that we'll start to see some remedies to these small problems soon. They're currently expanding in order to start dealing with a lot more R&D, fixing small problems with current products, etc. I still think that they're the best longtube headers on the market.
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Trevor D ]</p>
I was talking with Jeff at MTI when I was getting my FLPs installed, and he said that they've seen NO power difference on their stage II heads/cam setups by cutting the collector off. He said that they're still seeing right at 425 RWHP or so w/ the FLP collector in place vs. welding in a Flowmaster collector, FWIW. However, I think it would be VERY cool to see an optional 3" y-pipe offered with their headers for those pushing a lot of power via forced induction, added cubes, etc. It would be the only 3" y-pipe on the market that I know of.
Sure, the V-clamps are hard to work with, but it still gives you the ability to swap between cats and an ORP. This is important for me since I like to run around with no cats but have to pass a sniffer test in Dallas County. Even then, their cats have been proven to flow really well. That's something that Mac and TTS can't say. I know that the Macs were proven to flow WORSE than the factory cats! <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0">
ZMan - I'm REALLY surprised that you had any customer service problems with FLP. That's a RARITY because I typically hear nothing but great things about their willingness to help, get parts out, etc. It sucks that you did experience that, though.
On a sidenote, FLP has been SWAMPED for quite a while and is currently experiencing "growing pains". I have a feeling that we'll start to see some remedies to these small problems soon. They're currently expanding in order to start dealing with a lot more R&D, fixing small problems with current products, etc. I still think that they're the best longtube headers on the market.
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Trevor D ]</p>
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12-20-2001, 08:00 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions The SLP's haven't given me a single one of those problems. Excellent quality header that looks today like when I bought them (stainless and coated). This has been a very long debated topic....
12-20-2001, 08:03 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions [quote]Originally posted by PaiN:
<strong>
George I'd love to see some pics of your setup!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's no beauty queen underneath my car, but some pictures are something I need to do... Next time I get the car up in the air, I'll try to snap some shots.
<strong>
George I'd love to see some pics of your setup!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's no beauty queen underneath my car, but some pictures are something I need to do... Next time I get the car up in the air, I'll try to snap some shots.
12-20-2001, 08:05 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions I dont have the headers but for $1200 i understand the grievances. Still though, has anyone dyno'd with the y-pipe/collector on vs. off? I dont think the average heads/cam needs a 3" y-pipe.
On a separate note, will FLP still sell an uncoated, offroad-only version for cheapies like me? Maybe around $600-700?
Ryan
On a separate note, will FLP still sell an uncoated, offroad-only version for cheapies like me? Maybe around $600-700?
Ryan
12-20-2001, 08:08 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions Man, I was dead set and getting FLP's <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0"> . Looks like i'm going to wait for the hooker headers and see how those come out.
12-20-2001, 09:30 PM
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Re: Initial FLP longtube impressions JMX sorry about your troubles..
I did not go with the FLP's because of $$$.
I went with SLP's for the stainless
longer lasting part. SLP has there little
problems too.. SPeed Bumps just say NO.
Here is some pictures of the entire SLP kit
for comparison vs the FLP kit..
http://ls1info.com/modules.php?set_a...view_album.php
Terry
I did not go with the FLP's because of $$$.
I went with SLP's for the stainless
longer lasting part. SLP has there little
problems too.. SPeed Bumps just say NO.
Here is some pictures of the entire SLP kit
for comparison vs the FLP kit..
http://ls1info.com/modules.php?set_a...view_album.php
Terry