Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it!
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Launching!
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Maxell AFB, AL
Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! I was all set on putting MAC Headers on my 2000 Z. So, I went to Midas to see how much a custom y-pipe was. He then proceeds to tell me the stock headers flow just as good as after market ones, and that it's a waste of money. I'm now thinking maybe that is alot of money just to gain 15RWHP. Am I crazy for thinking this, and how much is it to have headers installed?
TECH Regular
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From: San Diego, Ca / Tucson,AZ
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! Well for for the year 2000 and after we got header like exhaust mafifolds that flow about as well as shorty headers. I am not too familar with the mac headers but arent they mid length. I didnt even know they made headers for 2000. With long tubes you should gain about 20rwhp. Granted thats not alot but if you put other mods on your car such as a LS6 intake manifold or a camshaft and you'll see bigger gains. Mods work in conjunction with each other so the more you have the more you gain. For example SLP Claims a gain of 40hp for their headers with a camshaft and other mods. On a stock car you see 20hp.
So its really up to you whether you think its worth it or not. I got my SLP LTs installed not too long ago and I'm pretty happy with them. I can feel the difference when crusing around town but most of the power is really noticeable at hwy speeds. As for the stock headers/manifolds flowing just as good, it depends on what type of headers . Yes the flow good but not as good as aftermarket Long tube headers headers.
<img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />
So its really up to you whether you think its worth it or not. I got my SLP LTs installed not too long ago and I'm pretty happy with them. I can feel the difference when crusing around town but most of the power is really noticeable at hwy speeds. As for the stock headers/manifolds flowing just as good, it depends on what type of headers . Yes the flow good but not as good as aftermarket Long tube headers headers.
<img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />
TECH Regular
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Texas
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! Guy at muffler shop is full of <img src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" border="0" alt="[bullshit]" /> Get the MACs you will be happy <img src="graemlins/camaro.gif" border="0" alt="[Chevrolet]" />
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 192
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From: W.Palm Beach, Fl.
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! I agree with Steve. I had the owner of a Midas shop here in Florida tell me the same thing a few years ago. He didn't, as stated above, know what he was talking about. I've had regular mechanics try to tell me something about the LS1 when I know, for these cars anyway, that it was BS.
Get the Mac's. You'll love them. It will be well worth it down the road.
If your planning heads & Cam later, you might want to go the extra money and get long-tubes.
Good luck. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Get the Mac's. You'll love them. It will be well worth it down the road.
If your planning heads & Cam later, you might want to go the extra money and get long-tubes.
Good luck. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! Midas Guy: <img src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" border="0" alt="[bullshit]" />
[quote]
I'm now thinking maybe that is alot of money just to gain 15RWHP. Am I crazy for thinking this, and how much is it to have headers installed? <hr></blockquote>
That's up to you to decide. Headers provide good gains throughout your powerband. You have to consider what other mods you can do and the cost per HP and your goals for the car.
A torque converter would provide a much bigger performance gain for about the same price as the headers and a custom Y-Pipe. If you have the money, do both.
[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</p>
[quote]
I'm now thinking maybe that is alot of money just to gain 15RWHP. Am I crazy for thinking this, and how much is it to have headers installed? <hr></blockquote>
That's up to you to decide. Headers provide good gains throughout your powerband. You have to consider what other mods you can do and the cost per HP and your goals for the car.
A torque converter would provide a much bigger performance gain for about the same price as the headers and a custom Y-Pipe. If you have the money, do both.
[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</p>
TECH Addict
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From: HOU - yeah, you know the rest.
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! Think about who you are taking advice from, some muffler shop flunky. If you can afford it, headers are worth it! They pick up hp throughout the entire rpm range. By looking @ your sig it seems you're not satisfied with your 300 rwhp - well if you want to keep up with the guys on this site, get the headers!
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 78
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From: SW Florida
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! Just put MACS w/ ORP on yesterday and let me tell you they are well worth the money! The HP is definetly noticable, I cant put it to the floor in first geat w/o spining the tires. The install wasn't that hard either just time consuming. If you want to do it yourself PM me and I will help walk you through it.
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Tech Addict
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From: Marysville, WA
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! SLP LT's, "Y" Pipe, and RT Cats made a big difference with the performance of my car. I have read that the LT's give the best performance. When I put mine on there was a huge difference in power. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
<img src="graemlins/camaro.gif" border="0" alt="[Chevrolet]" />
<img src="graemlins/camaro.gif" border="0" alt="[Chevrolet]" />
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 329
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From: Northern CA.
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! GO TO A REAL MUFFLER SHOP!!!!
You will get a diff opinion and you will get a much better job.
Most midas worker can hit the ground with their hat!!!
The midas by me is always, always 50% more in price then my friends regular price for any exhaust work!
If I was to guess I would say that the moron at midas told you that because he doesn't know how to bend the pipe properly. therfore sending you away is in his best interest!!
TRUST ME,(this goes for everyone)NEVER TAKE YOUR CAR TO MIDAS FOR ANY REASON!!!!
I know for a fact that the midas by me will cut hack, weld, melt, anything thay have to to make it get out the door..... if they don't have the proper muffler for a car they will put on whatever they have in stock!
I've been to 6 different midas stores and I noticed if you look in the shop at their bender it will be a computer opperated one and it won't look very used since most of the muffler work they do consists of pre bent pipe for the specific car!
I'm serious watch them do a job atleast 95% of they work they do is all just a hack job using pre-bent pipe, a sawzall, and lots of muffler clamps(which you have to pay extra for)!!
[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: QuikSSilver ]</p>
You will get a diff opinion and you will get a much better job.
Most midas worker can hit the ground with their hat!!!
The midas by me is always, always 50% more in price then my friends regular price for any exhaust work!
If I was to guess I would say that the moron at midas told you that because he doesn't know how to bend the pipe properly. therfore sending you away is in his best interest!!
TRUST ME,(this goes for everyone)NEVER TAKE YOUR CAR TO MIDAS FOR ANY REASON!!!!
I know for a fact that the midas by me will cut hack, weld, melt, anything thay have to to make it get out the door..... if they don't have the proper muffler for a car they will put on whatever they have in stock!
I've been to 6 different midas stores and I noticed if you look in the shop at their bender it will be a computer opperated one and it won't look very used since most of the muffler work they do consists of pre bent pipe for the specific car!
I'm serious watch them do a job atleast 95% of they work they do is all just a hack job using pre-bent pipe, a sawzall, and lots of muffler clamps(which you have to pay extra for)!!
[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: QuikSSilver ]</p>
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 329
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From: Northern CA.
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! OH BTW,
If you wanna se how places like midas mieneke etc do so well go in and ask them what a tune up consits of!
They will be hesitant to tell you all they do is pull out the spark plugs looks at them and if they arn't completly shot put them back in!
I work on cars, I have seen so many midas tune ups come to my shop after a few thousand miles complaining that it runs funny!
low and behold!! everytime i hear that complaint i pull the plugs to see that midas only replaced 2 out of 8 plugsd and maybe 1 spark plug wire!(not a new wire but another used one)
OMG I HATE PLACES LIKE THAT!!! <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0">
They just screw people over, I have seen it many times with muffler work tune ups brake work.......
I've seen them install new brake pads on a car and the pad is so crappy it breaks off after only a few thousand miles...... THAT COULD BE THE END OF SOMEONE'S LIFE!!
Get a mechanic that does good work it may cost you a few bucks more but it will be done right and you will have no need to worry about the tire falling off after a tune up! <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Sorry, but I've heard that so many times I had to vent.
everything I said above is all in my opinion, do what you like but I would highly reccomend going to another place.
[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: QuikSSilver ]</p>
If you wanna se how places like midas mieneke etc do so well go in and ask them what a tune up consits of!
They will be hesitant to tell you all they do is pull out the spark plugs looks at them and if they arn't completly shot put them back in!
I work on cars, I have seen so many midas tune ups come to my shop after a few thousand miles complaining that it runs funny!
low and behold!! everytime i hear that complaint i pull the plugs to see that midas only replaced 2 out of 8 plugsd and maybe 1 spark plug wire!(not a new wire but another used one)
OMG I HATE PLACES LIKE THAT!!! <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0">
They just screw people over, I have seen it many times with muffler work tune ups brake work.......
I've seen them install new brake pads on a car and the pad is so crappy it breaks off after only a few thousand miles...... THAT COULD BE THE END OF SOMEONE'S LIFE!!
Get a mechanic that does good work it may cost you a few bucks more but it will be done right and you will have no need to worry about the tire falling off after a tune up! <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Sorry, but I've heard that so many times I had to vent.
everything I said above is all in my opinion, do what you like but I would highly reccomend going to another place.
[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: QuikSSilver ]</p>
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 13
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From: Wheeling
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! Headers do make a big difference, but it does depend on what you get. Go with longtubes if you are planning on getting serious with the motor. plus they are worth the money. <img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 252
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From: Maxell AFB, AL
Re: Guy at muffler shops says Headers not worth it! Thanks for all the inputs! Now I'm ready to put the Headers back on! Just waiting for a buddy to come back from school, tosee if he can help install them!
