Dr. Jeckel

iTrader: (12)

I've been reading for quite some time now and am leaning towards the 228r because I DD my car and it just gets used for a very seldom race, actually haven't raced in this car yet and i've had it for 2 months.
I gave the above cams because I wanted to hear some comments on how people think a race, given two M6 cars with the same mods only different cams, might look like.
I want the 228r for Driveability, but don't want to get passed like I'm standing still if I go up against an MS4 car.
I know the 228r has really good low-mid range, but at 20mph and 3000rpm, wouldn't the 228r get killed by an MS3/4 car?
What would be the margin considering a run from 20mph to 130mph or so?
Also, what would be the difference in a 1/4 mile race from a stop?
I'm really looking for real world data/races between these cams, if there is any.
I have always gone with the 10rwhp=.1sec=1car, but realize that changes as times decrease.
I'm trying to visualize my deficite if I go with the 228r vs another choice.

Thanks, James.

FstBlkz28

iTrader: (13)

ppl DD the MS3 ... it really just comes down to how much youre willing to put up with. I would look into something like the Torquer or the 233/239 if your not wanting to get drug by a MS3 or MS4. With a good tune, the driveability of either of those cams should be decent ... and of course a set of gears would probably help driveability as well.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

It's not the 3000 rpm in 1st that's going to kill you. Where you'll really notice the big cams pulling away from you is in 3rd gear.

Is the 228r on a 112 LSA? You could look at a 228/232 111 109 to gain a little more punch and still have less overlap than a MS4

Dr. Jeckel

iTrader: (12)

Thats what I was trying to get at, that your already at 3000rpm and the 228R's advantage is about over.

Anybody had/seen races between cars with any of these cams?

The only thing is that I don't really want to go over 6400rpm. The 233/239 is about as big as I wanna go.

JRracing

iTrader: (35)

I would DD any of those cams. You just gotta have *****.LOL. The cam in my sig is very streetable. But this car is'nt a DD either.

Oh **** I just took it out of my sig. It is coming out of the car next week. It was a 234/242 comp on a 114 lsa. Once warmed up. It idled like a baby cam.

Dr. Jeckel

iTrader: (12)

How much will the 233/239 beat a 228r by...1/4mile and 20-130mph?

It's not about having "*****", its about being realistic with what you want to use it for. I'm not looking to say, "I made xxxrwhp, my car is faster than yours"

Say someone has the 228r and has raced a 233/239 or any of the other cammed cars, what did you loose by?

I know I will have a deficit, just trying to figure out how much by peoples real world experience from racing.

Thanks, James.

BNKBRKR

iTrader: (5)

I would guess that any of the above listed cams would be a good race, given the cars were equal. On paper the MS4 should beat them all. In the real world, say at the track, the average 224 cam will run a 12.5, the MS4 cars I've seen run around 11.5 so you are looking at a second difference between those (if that, there are some guys that have hit 11s with a 224 cam). On the street it's hard tellin' but I don't think any of those cams are gonna get up and RUN away from the others. Just my $.02

camarokid94

iTrader: (2)

i love my 233-239 pulls like a train and i think your only talkin about feet also my car drives like stock i tuned it my self

check this out how close they are
https://ls1tech.com/forums/multimedia-exchange/610998-tsp-233-239-vs-fm13-part-two-real-close-video.html

BriancWS6

iTrader: (18)

A 224 cammed car will run better than 12.5 in a m6 car unless the driver sucks. I ran 12.34@113 with just bolt-ons and Nittos, and I didn't even have all the bolt-ons. Also, there is no way that a MS4 cam will be a full second faster than a 224 cammed car given equal suspension, gearing, tires, and driver. A full second would be about 100rwhp more, and the cam itself won't even give that much, let alone that much MORE than a 224 cam.

Dr. Jeckel

iTrader: (12)

I've watched that video a few times, it's a good one. I understand bad air and high elevation. We have 3600'elev and 5500da usually around here.

Does he have anything else different than you, what converter are you each running?

BlueGoat06

here is a video of a guy i know (ls1gto forum member) who has an a4 ls1 fbody with the 228r cam. he runs high 11's with it. (cam only)
Mods: full exhaust, 228r cam, 3.73's,3400 TC, SLP UD pulley,some suspension mods
http://media.putfile.com/White-Z28-SS

is really hard to compared those cams to the 228r since those are top end cams, and the 228 is mid range. that doesn't mean the 228r won't put good power up top as well. and most important, is making better power across the powerband. if you're going for all drag setup, i'll pick the ms4 with matching heads, at least 4.10's and a set of sticky tires. the 228r is a good match for the street and strip. it just depends how high you want to start making power.

JoeyGC5

iTrader: (24)

I've had the 224r (well MTI C2), the 228r (clone), and now run the MS4. You can daily drive any of them, however, the MS4 is a little trickier in Dallas or K.C. bumper to bumper traffic with a 3.42 rear.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

yeah alot of guys say bigger isnt always better. i guess it comes down to how u do your driving. im still looking at cams also. i have pm a $hit loads of people and probably bugged them to death..lol. for me using a ms3/4, g5x3/4 trex wouldnt be useful. i drive around town and what not and would never be able to use that cam to its full potential. so that cancels those cams out. so something like a torquer 2 and under would work i guess. but your looking at alot of roll racing it seems like. so if i was doing roll racing like your saying then yeah go with the bigger cams like the ms3. the ms3 actually sounds really good too.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

If you want to shift at 6400, you want a cam that peaks at 6100 or 6200. Under those contraints the "big" cams like the MS4 aren't going to be as big a help as you think. Those cams really shine with 6800 rpm shiftpoints. A smaller duration tight LSA cam will pack the power into a lower rpm band. The 228/232 111 109 will better match your shift points. Going to a 110 LSA 228/232 110 108 will have no more overlap than the 233/239 (112 LSA) yet will not need to rev as high to get it's full power.

PREDATOR-Z

Think of it more in those terms, does a MS3 380rwhp car beat a 228 380 hp car ) weight being equal), no
Trick is combo and to a certain degree a smaller cam car can whip *** on a bigger cammed car if the other car is not optimized on setup.

Power under the curve is very important and while some bigger cams may have more hp at peak, the lack the below curve power to compete.
so the morale of it all is properly matched setups on smaller cams can outperform bigger ones.

sykotic

Man go big or go home. I just put in a 233/239 on friday(3 nights ago) and it's untuned and other than it not idling(fixed by tune), it is EASILY streetable, it feels like a baby. I wish I had gone Torquer v3 or MS4, or ATLEAST MS3. I DD my car in CITY 250-300 miles a week and this cam is not gonna be an issue at all. I am 19 by the way so I also drive it to class everyday + I use it for work.

Do you know about amarilloracers.com? There has got to be a couple cammed f-body's in your town that can take you for a ride or let you drive their cars to decide.

PREDATOR-Z

Torquer V3 is smaller than 233/239 (it is a 231/234)

sykotic

whoops my bad, lift is much higher i guess thats what i was thinkin of, nm the torquer v3

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

agreed with predator. its all bout the combo. but i can see from a dig the smaller cam will probably keep up or pull on the bigger cam. but from a roll wouldnt the bigger cam just pull on the smaller cam?

01formula6

iTrader: (7)

Dr. Jeckel, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you as far as cam choice goes. I've had 226/226 112 cam before and would definitely want to go bigger next time. I'll most likely be going with the Torquer 2. It's just a matter of what you use the car for and what you consider streetable with the car being a DD. I noticed you're the same age as me, not that we are old by any means, but you have to remember that some of these guys telling you to go MS4 are probably 18-19 yrs. old. Nothing wrong with that, nor is it a bad cam, but I know my definition of "streetable" has definitely changed since then. Good luck and I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever cam you choose.