918 or PRC duals for 228R?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 669
Likes: 1
From: Amarillo, TX
918 or PRC duals for 228R? I am having a dilema between the two. The cam is smaller than most but has the aggressive lobes. The 918 would support the lift just fine and offer less weight. The cam/spring/pushrod package from TSP is $599.
The PRC duals have added piece of mind but are alot more seat pressure and not really necessary for my sixed cam. The PRC dual package comes with titanium retainers and is only $100 more.
It is pretty much no brainer to get the PRC duals, but I can't keep myself from thinking that I am overdoing it with the duals and giving up horsepower.
Someone reassure me that the horsepower loss is negligable and that the added seat pressure has no tradeoff, so I can settle the battle in my head
Thanks, James.
The PRC duals have added piece of mind but are alot more seat pressure and not really necessary for my sixed cam. The PRC dual package comes with titanium retainers and is only $100 more.
It is pretty much no brainer to get the PRC duals, but I can't keep myself from thinking that I am overdoing it with the duals and giving up horsepower.
Someone reassure me that the horsepower loss is negligable and that the added seat pressure has no tradeoff, so I can settle the battle in my head
Thanks, James.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 669
Likes: 1
From: Amarillo, TX
Originally Posted by BIG_MIKE2005
I would say unless you at .595 lift or higher just get the 918 springs. Too much spring is a bad thing too. Don't get some too strong if the lift doesn't require them.
To add titanium retainers its $150(i believe) and that means I'm paying more, unless I missed something and the 918 kit comes with Ti Retainers.
I haven't read but one post on a 918 failure and that was for a truck.
What? Power loss? You're not going to loose any power with a stiffer spring. The same higher k value that you have to compress will assist in helping to turn the camshaft when the lifter is on the trailing side of the lobe.
There will not be a loss going with a stiffer spring. My vote is for the dual coil springs.
Ben T.
There will not be a loss going with a stiffer spring. My vote is for the dual coil springs.
Ben T.
Since your lift is only .588/.588 I would just get the 918 springs & call it a day. Thats what I'll be using on my 224/224 .581/.581 114 cam when it goes in. No sense in spending more than you need to for parts made for a larger lift cam.
...unless you like the insurance of a second coil. Having had to personally pull an engine because of a broken 918 (at 10K miles), I'll be running dual coil springs on every car I build unless it's the stock cam.
The 918 that broke was the updated blue stripe and they always were allowed to warm up before driving on them.
Ben T.
The 918 that broke was the updated blue stripe and they always were allowed to warm up before driving on them.
Ben T.
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What size cam were they under though?? Some people fail to mention this & not very many talk about broken 918 springs. And like I said before, too much spring can be a bad thing too. You don't want to stick a double spring on there rated to .660 lift for a cam with only .588 max lift.
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Verdad Gallardo Too much spring is NEVER a problem. If you're bending pushrods because you have 600#s of open pressure that's a problem, but adding 50#s on the seat is not going to hurt anything. It will only help valve control.
The cam was a 230/224 .575/.55_" cam.
Ben T.
The cam was a 230/224 .575/.55_" cam.
Ben T.
Originally Posted by Studytime
Too much spring is NEVER a problem.
Mike, the 3rd page of this thread has some info on it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/606522-patriot-announces-our-new-gold-xtreme-spring.html
Ben T.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/606522-patriot-announces-our-new-gold-xtreme-spring.html
Ben T.
Originally Posted by Studytime
Mike, the 3rd page of this thread has some info on it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606522
Ben T.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606522
Ben T.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 669
Likes: 1
From: Amarillo, TX
Can anybody confirm that the TSP camshaft and 918 spring kit does or does not come with Ti Retainers.
Is the addition of Ti retainers going to cost me an additional $160, which means I will be paying $60 more than the duals(come with Ti Ret.)? If this is the case, then I really can't see me not doing the Duals, unless someone who has had ALOT of experience, like an engineer at CompCams or comparable, can give a definitive mathematical reason and not just personal experience.
Parts are always going to have failures, no matter the quality assurance involved. There was a thread were a guy was busting the inner spring on his duals, I think they were manleys though.
In reguards to page 3 of that thread, I really didn't get anything definitive from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studytime
"If the rest of your valve train can support the increased pressure, stronger valve springs will not affect valve control in a negative way. Valve control will only be increased.
Ben T."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar@Patriot
"The key is that your valvetrain can support the greater pressure. If your valvetrain will not, components will not work efficiently and can result in a loss of power."
Is the addition of Ti retainers going to cost me an additional $160, which means I will be paying $60 more than the duals(come with Ti Ret.)? If this is the case, then I really can't see me not doing the Duals, unless someone who has had ALOT of experience, like an engineer at CompCams or comparable, can give a definitive mathematical reason and not just personal experience.
Parts are always going to have failures, no matter the quality assurance involved. There was a thread were a guy was busting the inner spring on his duals, I think they were manleys though.
In reguards to page 3 of that thread, I really didn't get anything definitive from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studytime
"If the rest of your valve train can support the increased pressure, stronger valve springs will not affect valve control in a negative way. Valve control will only be increased.
Ben T."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar@Patriot
"The key is that your valvetrain can support the greater pressure. If your valvetrain will not, components will not work efficiently and can result in a loss of power."
Last edited by Dr. Jeckel; Dec 12, 2006 at 06:02 PM.
If any part of your valvetrain is experiencing elastic deformation (such as a pushrod), then you will not get full valve lift. This is how power could be hurt. A quality 5/16" aftermarket 4130 steel rod should not deflect with Patriot Dual coil springs. If you're running 2000#s on the seat, the stock diameter rods might bow in the middle, but we're not talking about that mush pressure.
Notice how a lot of the guys are justifying that you should run 918s... it's "because they are".
I could guess what a tech at comp cams would tell you if you asked them what springs to run.
Ben T.
Notice how a lot of the guys are justifying that you should run 918s... it's "because they are".
I could guess what a tech at comp cams would tell you if you asked them what springs to run.
Ben T.
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
i was told by the TSP guys 918's were fine for the 228r. i decided to go with their cam2 pack because of the dual springs. also confirmed by TSP this were ok to use in this application. my stock redline was 6500rpm, and with the 228r, i had it set up at 7000rpm, didn't know if the 918's were going to hold that much rpm. so i said fack it, is only $100 more
i have 5000 miles so far with my setup, hard driven everyday, 140 miles round trips, and the springs are holding up fine. if i'm loosing some hp i won't really know, i powershift 2nd to 3rd from time to time at 6800rpm
, so i like to know they're there doing something good for my setup.
i have 5000 miles so far with my setup, hard driven everyday, 140 miles round trips, and the springs are holding up fine. if i'm loosing some hp i won't really know, i powershift 2nd to 3rd from time to time at 6800rpm
, so i like to know they're there doing something good for my setup. Last edited by BlueGoat06; Dec 12, 2006 at 08:54 PM.