Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,987
Likes: 58
From: Houston, TX
Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! I met up with Randy Winfrey ("TTtop") today at MTI and took some pictures of his unique inline electric waterpump setup and got the vendor information for everyone. I believe he paid just over $200 for this kit, and its been on his car almost a year now. He only uses it for the track, so during regular days he just runs the stock belt-driven waterpump. At the track, you simply use a shorter belt to connect the crank pulley to the alternator pulley (also goes around idler pulley) and flip a switch and this sucker goes to work. I've seen it work first hand, and it keeps the motor very cool. Best part is that you can keep it running in the staging lanes even with the motor off.
Here are some pictures of it installed. It is a centrifugal pump, shaped kind of like a tiny Vortech supercharger. It connects directly inline between the T-Stat housing (remove the T-stat completely) and the lower radiator hose.
Vendor information:
Davies Craig Proprietary, Melbourne Austrailia
www.daviescraig.com.au
Telephone +61 3 9646 3051
email dcfans@daviescraig.com.au
I'm pretty sure Randy ordered this unit from a distributor here in the US, but this is the real vendor. Thanks for the cheap alternative to electric water pump setups Randy!
Tony
[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Nine Ball ]</p>
Here are some pictures of it installed. It is a centrifugal pump, shaped kind of like a tiny Vortech supercharger. It connects directly inline between the T-Stat housing (remove the T-stat completely) and the lower radiator hose.
Vendor information:
Davies Craig Proprietary, Melbourne Austrailia
www.daviescraig.com.au
Telephone +61 3 9646 3051
email dcfans@daviescraig.com.au
I'm pretty sure Randy ordered this unit from a distributor here in the US, but this is the real vendor. Thanks for the cheap alternative to electric water pump setups Randy!
Tony
[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Nine Ball ]</p>
D(irecto)r Pepper
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 0
From: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! Thanks for posting the pics 9-ball. Randy... that pump sure had me thinking today.
Nice seeing everybody up at MTI today.
Mayber we could all get a GP going or something on this pump. (just an idea)
I can see all kinds of possiblities for this thing. And the price is RIGHT.
Nice seeing everybody up at MTI today.
Mayber we could all get a GP going or something on this pump. (just an idea)
I can see all kinds of possiblities for this thing. And the price is RIGHT.
TECH Addict
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,959
Likes: 1
From: HOU - yeah, you know the rest.
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! I remember Randy talkin' about that last year, seems pretty reliable. How much of difference is there @ the track and on the dyno?
Oz Director
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! Read this it was from a friend here in Australia, the car was using the same pump and had heaps of problems.
The car was a Holden Commodore with the LS1 engine.!!!
Davis Craig Pump
Just use for track would be OK. not for Street uses.
The car was a Holden Commodore with the LS1 engine.!!!
Davis Craig Pump
Just use for track would be OK. not for Street uses.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,987
Likes: 58
From: Houston, TX
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! Thanks for the info. I don't see any fitment issues with the pump, Randy installed this one with no problems. Maybe the Holden has less room in front of the motor? And no, I don't think I'd trust any electrical pump for daily-driving purposes. This would be a track-only modification if I were to have one.
Tony
Tony
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! I use a similar pump, but reverse flow cool it. I didn't seen any real gains with it on the dyno so I took it off. If the JP water pump starts making power for people maybe I'll get more in to it. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
It cost about $275 total with the pump, fittings, and hoses. Here is a pic:
http://members.aol.com/terencevv/mycars/ewp.jpg
It cost about $275 total with the pump, fittings, and hoses. Here is a pic:
http://members.aol.com/terencevv/mycars/ewp.jpg
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! [quote]
I can see all kinds of possiblities for this thing. And the price is RIGHT.
<hr></blockquote>
Jeg's sells the CSI remote mount pump I used for $239. It moves up to 30gal/min and has been used in many daily driver applications. It's also available in many colors, lol. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> The way the fittings work out you have a ton of flexibility as to where you mount it.
I can see all kinds of possiblities for this thing. And the price is RIGHT.
<hr></blockquote>
Jeg's sells the CSI remote mount pump I used for $239. It moves up to 30gal/min and has been used in many daily driver applications. It's also available in many colors, lol. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> The way the fittings work out you have a ton of flexibility as to where you mount it.
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Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! THeres alot of folks that use pumps like that for automotive things and might have good feeback on good vs. bad pumps. They certainly dont have to come from Australia. I promise that.
The group are Syclone and Typhoon owners. the 4.3 l turbo uses a Water-> Air intercooler where the water is circulated by a small pump. We used to soup up that pump in order to get better intake temperatures. If I recall right, alot of the best pumps came from RV sources. www.syty.com or www.syty.org if you want to follow that lead.
Chris
The group are Syclone and Typhoon owners. the 4.3 l turbo uses a Water-> Air intercooler where the water is circulated by a small pump. We used to soup up that pump in order to get better intake temperatures. If I recall right, alot of the best pumps came from RV sources. www.syty.com or www.syty.org if you want to follow that lead.
Chris
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Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! I have not had a single problem with the pump. I don't use it as the primary water. I only use it at the track where it cools the car more than adequately for a 1/4 pass. I use it in the staging lanes or when the car is parked to cool the engine down. With the engine off, the pump can cool the engine down below 100'F in about 10 minutes.
The pump housing is black plastic color, very stealthy, no other choice for colors however. Most people don't notice it at all until I point it out. It is also very lightweight, only weighs 2 lbs.
My SOTP meter tells me there is some power being gained when I use this pump along with the Crank/Alternator belt. If I get a chance this week, I'll take the car to MTI and have it dynoed to quantify the gain with and without the pump. Maybe Tony could scan the dyno sheet to show the results.
I called the US distributor in Aurora, IL, and they said they have a lot of these pumps in stock, computer says they have 500.
The price for the pump only is $248, there is a temp controller also for $150. They said they have special prices on the pumps for racers only, Jeff Mantson is the person to talk to about the special pricing. He's out till tomorrow. I'll call him back then, and ask about GP type pricing. I got the pump only in Sept. 2000 for $199, I think this is the racer's only price because when I ordered, I mentioned I had seen it in HOT ROD magazine.
Website for the pump(EWP): www.daviescraig.com
Here is the US distributor's address:
Davies, Craig
384 Exchange Ave.
Aurora, Illinois 60504-8106
TEL: (877)964-6305
FAX: (630)851-7744
E-Mail: ili@importlogistics.com
Randy
The pump housing is black plastic color, very stealthy, no other choice for colors however. Most people don't notice it at all until I point it out. It is also very lightweight, only weighs 2 lbs.
My SOTP meter tells me there is some power being gained when I use this pump along with the Crank/Alternator belt. If I get a chance this week, I'll take the car to MTI and have it dynoed to quantify the gain with and without the pump. Maybe Tony could scan the dyno sheet to show the results.
I called the US distributor in Aurora, IL, and they said they have a lot of these pumps in stock, computer says they have 500.
The price for the pump only is $248, there is a temp controller also for $150. They said they have special prices on the pumps for racers only, Jeff Mantson is the person to talk to about the special pricing. He's out till tomorrow. I'll call him back then, and ask about GP type pricing. I got the pump only in Sept. 2000 for $199, I think this is the racer's only price because when I ordered, I mentioned I had seen it in HOT ROD magazine.
Website for the pump(EWP): www.daviescraig.com
Here is the US distributor's address:
Davies, Craig
384 Exchange Ave.
Aurora, Illinois 60504-8106
TEL: (877)964-6305
FAX: (630)851-7744
E-Mail: ili@importlogistics.com
Randy
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! I'd love to see a pic of that belt configuration running only the alt too. It would make it easier for me to do a before/after test on my EWP at the track.
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! Also I have to ask, I can see the heater won't work with that pump turned on, but does the thermostat open? Did you have to modify the thermostat?
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! NO problem with the thermostat because there ain't one. I have not had a thermostat for over a year now with no engine related problems. Just dynoed 416 rwhp after an LS6 intake install and LS1 edit tuning, this was with no thermostat installed. My 12.23s 1/4 run was without a thermosat, and Tony drove my car to a 12.03s that same night with no thermostat.
With the 160'F thermostat, car was running in the 180-185'F range. With no stat, it seems to be in the 185-190'F range not a whole of difference IMO.
To run a 32.5 inch Kelley-Springfield 6-rib belt, from the Crank to the Alternator, I remove the belt tensioner pulley and move it to where the idler pulley is. This makes getting the belt on very easy. The only drawback so far is that Kelley belts stretch after mashing the throttle a few times, and the belt then wants to jump off the pulley. I've been told that Gates belts don't stretch, so I'm going to try one of them. I have also seen a couple of LS1's with a belt directly from the Crank pulley to the Alternator, but you need a 29.5 inch belt I believe.
Randy
With the 160'F thermostat, car was running in the 180-185'F range. With no stat, it seems to be in the 185-190'F range not a whole of difference IMO.
To run a 32.5 inch Kelley-Springfield 6-rib belt, from the Crank to the Alternator, I remove the belt tensioner pulley and move it to where the idler pulley is. This makes getting the belt on very easy. The only drawback so far is that Kelley belts stretch after mashing the throttle a few times, and the belt then wants to jump off the pulley. I've been told that Gates belts don't stretch, so I'm going to try one of them. I have also seen a couple of LS1's with a belt directly from the Crank pulley to the Alternator, but you need a 29.5 inch belt I believe.
Randy
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! Interesting setup!! I'll try mine wo a thermo and see how it runs. It doesn't get too cool on the highway or anything? I was having that problem with my reverse flow EWP and no thermostat.
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! I have not tried it for reverse cooling yet, but I'm thinking about it. Just gotta turn it around and try it, but been to busy(buisness travel) the last 6 months to do anything significant to the car. I was going to try and dyno the car this week, just with the pump running in the conventional flow direction to show the gain for unloading the engine from the stock mechanical pump by using the crank to alternator belt and the EWP.
I am concerned however that with the pump flowing full capacity, it may over cool the heads where the temp sensor is located. The Davies pump is rated at 1300 gal/hr or 21.7 gpm, so its a little less than some other EWP pumps, maybe it won't cool the heads that much. I'll just have to try it and see what I get.
I could hook the pump to a variable voltage source to control the flow as a way to control the head temp from getting to low. You could also use diodes or a Zener diode to drop the voltage to the pump, but they would have to be high amperage diodes to work (10 amp).
Randy
I am concerned however that with the pump flowing full capacity, it may over cool the heads where the temp sensor is located. The Davies pump is rated at 1300 gal/hr or 21.7 gpm, so its a little less than some other EWP pumps, maybe it won't cool the heads that much. I'll just have to try it and see what I get.
I could hook the pump to a variable voltage source to control the flow as a way to control the head temp from getting to low. You could also use diodes or a Zener diode to drop the voltage to the pump, but they would have to be high amperage diodes to work (10 amp).
Randy
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! You'd have to put the pump on the other radiator hose to make reverse flow work right. I tried limited my flow and a lot of other things, but still had problems with it running too cool at times. The solution is to add a thermostat to the inlet side of the pump that will route water through the heater core and engine until it gets over a specific temp, then let a little cool water in. For a track only mod overcooling shouldn't be a problem.
I'll try your belt trick, and if it works, I'll put my reverse flow pump back on and do a before/after test on the dyno and at the track. To do that right now I'd have to swap water pumps (I have a gutted one for my EWP).
I'll try your belt trick, and if it works, I'll put my reverse flow pump back on and do a before/after test on the dyno and at the track. To do that right now I'd have to swap water pumps (I have a gutted one for my EWP).
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! Well, if that's the case, then I may not worry about optimizing it. I just use the EWP at the track anyway. Good luck, glad the belt mod was of some use to you.
Randy
Randy
Re: Cheap, Inline Electric Waterpump - PICTURES! Updating this post, I spoke to Jeff Mantson, who distributes for Craig Davies in the US., and he said that could give racers a 20 % off list on the EWP. This would reduce the price of the pump from $248 to $198.40.
I am e-mailing Richard Davies in Australia about GP pricing and will post that when I get it.
They have about 500 pumps in stock at the Aurora, IL distributor. So anyone that wants one can call Jeff at (877)964-6305, and just tell him you want the racers price. They also have the electronic temp controller, if you want that, it is $150.
Randy
Website for the pump(EWP): www.daviescraig.com
Here is the US distributor's address:
Davies, Craig
384 Exchange Ave.
Aurora, Illinois 60504-8106
TEL: (877)964-6305
FAX: (630)851-7744
E-Mail: ili@importlogistics.com
I am e-mailing Richard Davies in Australia about GP pricing and will post that when I get it.
They have about 500 pumps in stock at the Aurora, IL distributor. So anyone that wants one can call Jeff at (877)964-6305, and just tell him you want the racers price. They also have the electronic temp controller, if you want that, it is $150.
Randy
Website for the pump(EWP): www.daviescraig.com
Here is the US distributor's address:
Davies, Craig
384 Exchange Ave.
Aurora, Illinois 60504-8106
TEL: (877)964-6305
FAX: (630)851-7744
E-Mail: ili@importlogistics.com
