Nine Ball, need advice...
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Nine Ball, need advice... I want to order my 382 all-bore from a shop in Orlando but I had some last minute questions. I was going to use MMS, but I made the decision to go with a shop only 3 hours from home instead of a 3-day train ride if something were to break.
How, if possible, should this engine be built so it idles like stock? Will it produce about 440 RWHP/400+ RWTQ (A4), if so, is there certain parts I should get? Can you tell me a list of parts to tell them to use? I would rather give up some power for reliability and stock like characteristics.
How about exhaust, can I keep my single factory one? I have a 98' WS6. I also want them to do a full suspension, what do you recommend?
This will be strictly a street car, no track.
Thanks,
Quickin
How, if possible, should this engine be built so it idles like stock? Will it produce about 440 RWHP/400+ RWTQ (A4), if so, is there certain parts I should get? Can you tell me a list of parts to tell them to use? I would rather give up some power for reliability and stock like characteristics.
How about exhaust, can I keep my single factory one? I have a 98' WS6. I also want them to do a full suspension, what do you recommend?
This will be strictly a street car, no track.
Thanks,
Quickin
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... Why not buy Tony's motor with the T1 cam then?
I would not have just any old shop do an "all bore" motor, stick with shops that have done them well in the past, it will save you a TON of money and headache down the road. BTW the MMS 388 motor paired with stage 3 heads and the MMS 229v2 camshaft is putting out awesome numbers. If you want a stock like idle, I've heard the 388 with a MMS 218 camshaft&stock manifolds, very stock sounding.
I would not have just any old shop do an "all bore" motor, stick with shops that have done them well in the past, it will save you a TON of money and headache down the road. BTW the MMS 388 motor paired with stage 3 heads and the MMS 229v2 camshaft is putting out awesome numbers. If you want a stock like idle, I've heard the 388 with a MMS 218 camshaft&stock manifolds, very stock sounding.
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... Make sure you do not skimp on the heads, they are the most important part of any built motor. Your rwhp will depend highly on that, and you do not want to have to redo things later.
My motor with the T1 cam idled like stock, passed emissions sniff tests easily, and dynoed 455 rwhp with the stock rearend. VERY nice setup for daily-driver sleepers.
As for motor parts, I hope the shop you contract can design the setup themselves, or I'd probably run!
For reference, I have:
Lunati custom forged pistons
stock rods
stock crank
Crane lifters (stock replacements)
MTI pushrods
MTI resleeved 4.10" bore aluminum LS1 block
MTI stage 3 heads (2.08" intake, 1.60" exhaust)
11.0:1 compression ratio
Full suspension? I suppose you mean drivetrain? A built 4L60E should be all you need for now. Maybe a custom converter made for your motor. The stock rear will live on the streets in an A4.
As for suspension, I'm pretty happy with the quality of my LG Motorsports stuff. I only have LCA's and a torque arm right now, the rest is stock.
Tony
My motor with the T1 cam idled like stock, passed emissions sniff tests easily, and dynoed 455 rwhp with the stock rearend. VERY nice setup for daily-driver sleepers.
As for motor parts, I hope the shop you contract can design the setup themselves, or I'd probably run!
For reference, I have:
Lunati custom forged pistons
stock rods
stock crank
Crane lifters (stock replacements)
MTI pushrods
MTI resleeved 4.10" bore aluminum LS1 block
MTI stage 3 heads (2.08" intake, 1.60" exhaust)
11.0:1 compression ratio
Full suspension? I suppose you mean drivetrain? A built 4L60E should be all you need for now. Maybe a custom converter made for your motor. The stock rear will live on the streets in an A4.
As for suspension, I'm pretty happy with the quality of my LG Motorsports stuff. I only have LCA's and a torque arm right now, the rest is stock.
Tony
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Re: Nine Ball, need advice... I'm sure Norris Motorsports can put together a perfect package, I just didn't want them to say, don't worry we know what you want. Then it comes back undesirable. I thought since you and others here had experience with these motors, you could give me actual specs and parts so I am sure what I'm getting.
About buying your 382, I really want/need the warranty (I have bad luck). He is giving me a 3yr/36,000 mile full warranty.
So I should buy the parts you mentioned and have them shipped to the shop and they will do the rest?
I did mean suspension, and he will be building my 4L60E.
Another thing, what should I pay for this just so I know I'm getting a good deal?
Thanks again,
About buying your 382, I really want/need the warranty (I have bad luck). He is giving me a 3yr/36,000 mile full warranty.
So I should buy the parts you mentioned and have them shipped to the shop and they will do the rest?
I did mean suspension, and he will be building my 4L60E.
Another thing, what should I pay for this just so I know I'm getting a good deal?
Thanks again,
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Re: Nine Ball, need advice... One more thing, do they take my block and bore it or will they bore a new block and take mine as a core?
And does all-bore mean my engine will have the same stroke? Can they do both bore and stroke for more power and a better idle?
Thanks
And does all-bore mean my engine will have the same stroke? Can they do both bore and stroke for more power and a better idle?
Thanks
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... I wish I could help more, but I have no clue what the actual part numbers or specs are on all of the motor internals I have. I simply told MTI that I wanted an all-bore 382ci sleeved motor with 11:01 compression, forged pistons, and stock rods, and they built it for me.
As for pricing, I can only tell you what Motorsports charges. A assembled and balanced 382ci shortblock like mine (stock rods, forged pistons) will cost around $3500. If you want the nicer billet rods, it will cost around $4500. Both of those prices are with a core swap. My stage 3 heads retail for $3250 with core swap.
Tony
As for pricing, I can only tell you what Motorsports charges. A assembled and balanced 382ci shortblock like mine (stock rods, forged pistons) will cost around $3500. If you want the nicer billet rods, it will cost around $4500. Both of those prices are with a core swap. My stage 3 heads retail for $3250 with core swap.
Tony
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... So, if I get this all done for under $9,000, it's a good price?
What about bore and stroking an engine, would that be a much larger project? Would it be worth it?
Thanks for the help I need to call tomorrow to start this ball rolling.
What about bore and stroking an engine, would that be a much larger project? Would it be worth it?
Thanks for the help I need to call tomorrow to start this ball rolling.
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Re: Nine Ball, need advice... [quote]One more thing, do they take my block and bore it or will they bore a new block and take mine as a core?<hr></blockquote>
Most shops will have other blocks to prepare and assemble before you bring your car in. Then they can just do the swap and take your motor in exchange. Are you sure that Norris has done the resleeving process? The only two shops I know that are doing this successfully are ARE and MTI. They have to machine your stock sleeves out and replace them with aftermarket cylinder sleeves which are then bored out.
[quote]And does all-bore mean my engine will have the same stroke?<hr></blockquote>
Yes, "all-bore" means stock crank, stock stroke.
[quote]Can they do both bore and stroke for more power and a better idle?<hr></blockquote>
Definitely, but that aftermarket crank is expensive. Go ahead and add about $2500 more for the crank to make an all-bore 382ci to a 422ci. Bigger cube motors are more drivable when the same cam specs are used.
Tony
Most shops will have other blocks to prepare and assemble before you bring your car in. Then they can just do the swap and take your motor in exchange. Are you sure that Norris has done the resleeving process? The only two shops I know that are doing this successfully are ARE and MTI. They have to machine your stock sleeves out and replace them with aftermarket cylinder sleeves which are then bored out.
[quote]And does all-bore mean my engine will have the same stroke?<hr></blockquote>
Yes, "all-bore" means stock crank, stock stroke.
[quote]Can they do both bore and stroke for more power and a better idle?<hr></blockquote>
Definitely, but that aftermarket crank is expensive. Go ahead and add about $2500 more for the crank to make an all-bore 382ci to a 422ci. Bigger cube motors are more drivable when the same cam specs are used.
Tony
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Verdad Gallardo Re: Nine Ball, need advice... Never buy parts and bring them to the shop, let the shop order the parts for you. How can you expect them to stand behind parts you didn't buy from them?
A 382ci motor uses the stock stroke. You can not add more stroke with out adding a $2600 crank (which would make your engine a 42x ci). If you don't race at the track, why not just do heads/cam/headers?
A 382ci motor uses the stock stroke. You can not add more stroke with out adding a $2600 crank (which would make your engine a 42x ci). If you don't race at the track, why not just do heads/cam/headers?
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... [quote]
Are you sure that Norris has done the resleeving process? The only two shops I know that are doing this successfully are ARE and MTI.
<hr></blockquote>
MMS has done a ton of 4.125 bore alum blocks. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Are you sure that Norris has done the resleeving process? The only two shops I know that are doing this successfully are ARE and MTI.
<hr></blockquote>
MMS has done a ton of 4.125 bore alum blocks. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
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Re: Nine Ball, need advice... [QUOTE]Originally posted by Terry Burger:
If you don't race at the track, why not just do heads/cam/headers?
__________________________________________________
One reason, from what I've learned from this site and from Mike Morgan. Any heads/cam packages idle rough and are easily noticable. Some bigger kits are very rough and shake the car. I have no problem spending $9000.00 on the 382 project as long as it idles like stock.
If you don't race at the track, why not just do heads/cam/headers?
__________________________________________________
One reason, from what I've learned from this site and from Mike Morgan. Any heads/cam packages idle rough and are easily noticable. Some bigger kits are very rough and shake the car. I have no problem spending $9000.00 on the 382 project as long as it idles like stock.
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... Terry, does MMS do the machine work completely in-house on those blocks, or are they just selling the blocks? Both MTI and ARE do them in-house in their own machine shops, that is what I meant.
Quickin, you should be between $8500-9000 for a fully assembled complete all-bore 382ci longblock with Stage 3 heads and billet rods. That would include forged pistons, your choice of cam, the pushrods, custom head gaskets and bolts.
Tony
Quickin, you should be between $8500-9000 for a fully assembled complete all-bore 382ci longblock with Stage 3 heads and billet rods. That would include forged pistons, your choice of cam, the pushrods, custom head gaskets and bolts.
Tony
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... Just use the MMS 218 camshaft and "stage 2x" heads. Nice smooth idle, and easy 390rwhp in an A4. Has the shop you're using done any 382/388 all bore motors? If not I'd shy away! It took a few tries for the major shops to get them right.
Regardless of whether you do heads/cam or the entire motor, you'll need headers, an ud pulley, ported TB, LS6 intake, GMAF/ported maf, and all the other small mods too, so plan on them. Also you need a torque converter, something like the yank PYE3400 is a good choice.
Regardless of whether you do heads/cam or the entire motor, you'll need headers, an ud pulley, ported TB, LS6 intake, GMAF/ported maf, and all the other small mods too, so plan on them. Also you need a torque converter, something like the yank PYE3400 is a good choice.
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Re: Nine Ball, need advice... Nine Ball,
Thanks for the info and comments I'm going to go with it.
Terry Burger,
Another reason I don't want to use MMS is the distance they are from my home. I was going to use them, ARE or MTI, but I just can;t take the chance of a breakdown because then I would be screwed. Using the shop in Orlando gives me the flexability to take a 3 hour ride and see Disney during the repairs. As Nine Ball mentioned, if the shop does not do there own machining then I will have to buy the shortblock from somewhere. I will find all this out tomorrow.
Thank for your info too.
Thanks for the info and comments I'm going to go with it.
Terry Burger,
Another reason I don't want to use MMS is the distance they are from my home. I was going to use them, ARE or MTI, but I just can;t take the chance of a breakdown because then I would be screwed. Using the shop in Orlando gives me the flexability to take a 3 hour ride and see Disney during the repairs. As Nine Ball mentioned, if the shop does not do there own machining then I will have to buy the shortblock from somewhere. I will find all this out tomorrow.
Thank for your info too.
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... [quote]
Terry, does MMS do the machine work completely in-house on those blocks, or are they just selling the blocks? Both MTI and ARE do them in-house in their own machine shops, that is what I meant.
<hr></blockquote>
They use an exclusive machine shop for the resleveing, IE the shop only does LS1 blocks for MMS. More cost effective in California. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Terry, does MMS do the machine work completely in-house on those blocks, or are they just selling the blocks? Both MTI and ARE do them in-house in their own machine shops, that is what I meant.
<hr></blockquote>
They use an exclusive machine shop for the resleveing, IE the shop only does LS1 blocks for MMS. More cost effective in California. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... [quote]
As Nine Ball mentioned, if the shop does not do there own machining then I will have to buy the shortblock from somewhere. I will find all this out tomorrow.
<hr></blockquote>
I hate to point this out, but the likelihood of a small shop honoring a warranty on an engine failure is pretty small. If you are worried about reliability buy heads/cam from your favorite vendor, and have a local shop install them. There isn't much that can go wrong with heads cam. An entire motor can be a much more risky proposition.
As Nine Ball mentioned, if the shop does not do there own machining then I will have to buy the shortblock from somewhere. I will find all this out tomorrow.
<hr></blockquote>
I hate to point this out, but the likelihood of a small shop honoring a warranty on an engine failure is pretty small. If you are worried about reliability buy heads/cam from your favorite vendor, and have a local shop install them. There isn't much that can go wrong with heads cam. An entire motor can be a much more risky proposition.
Thread Starter
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Re: Nine Ball, need advice... [QUOTE]Originally posted by Terry Burger:
[QB]Just use the MMS 218 camshaft and "stage 2x" heads. Nice smooth idle, and easy 390rwhp in an A4. Has the shop you're using done any 382/388 all bore motors? If not I'd shy away! It took a few tries for the major shops to get them right.
Regardless of whether you do heads/cam or the entire motor, you'll need headers, an ud pulley, ported TB, LS6 intake, GMAF/ported maf, and all the other small mods too, so plan on them. Also you need a torque converter, something like the yank PYE3400 is a good choice.
__________________________________________________
This MMS 218 and STII heads, is this keeping the stock 346cid? I really do want to be around 440RWHP. I want low to mid 11's. I was planning on a 3000 stall just to keep it as close to stock feel as I can. Like I said, the track will be visited maybe once or twice just to see what it can do, but it will be driven every day on the street. Does this PYE3400 feel loose.
[QB]Just use the MMS 218 camshaft and "stage 2x" heads. Nice smooth idle, and easy 390rwhp in an A4. Has the shop you're using done any 382/388 all bore motors? If not I'd shy away! It took a few tries for the major shops to get them right.
Regardless of whether you do heads/cam or the entire motor, you'll need headers, an ud pulley, ported TB, LS6 intake, GMAF/ported maf, and all the other small mods too, so plan on them. Also you need a torque converter, something like the yank PYE3400 is a good choice.
__________________________________________________
This MMS 218 and STII heads, is this keeping the stock 346cid? I really do want to be around 440RWHP. I want low to mid 11's. I was planning on a 3000 stall just to keep it as close to stock feel as I can. Like I said, the track will be visited maybe once or twice just to see what it can do, but it will be driven every day on the street. Does this PYE3400 feel loose.
Thread Starter
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... [QUOTE]Originally posted by Terry Burger:
[QB]Just use the MMS 218 camshaft and "stage 2x" heads. Nice smooth idle, and easy 390rwhp in an A4. Has the shop you're using done any 382/388 all bore motors? If not I'd shy away! It took a few tries for the major shops to get them right.
Regardless of whether you do heads/cam or the entire motor, you'll need headers, an ud pulley, ported TB, LS6 intake, GMAF/ported maf, and all the other small mods too, so plan on them. Also you need a torque converter, something like the yank PYE3400 is a good choice.
__________________________________________________
This MMS 218 and STII heads, is this keeping the stock 346cid? I really do want to be around 440RWHP. I want low to mid 11's. I was planning on a 3000 stall just to keep it as close to stock feel as I can. Like I said, the track will be visited maybe once or twice just to see what it can do, but it will be driven every day on the street. Does this PYE3400 feel loose.
[QB]Just use the MMS 218 camshaft and "stage 2x" heads. Nice smooth idle, and easy 390rwhp in an A4. Has the shop you're using done any 382/388 all bore motors? If not I'd shy away! It took a few tries for the major shops to get them right.
Regardless of whether you do heads/cam or the entire motor, you'll need headers, an ud pulley, ported TB, LS6 intake, GMAF/ported maf, and all the other small mods too, so plan on them. Also you need a torque converter, something like the yank PYE3400 is a good choice.
__________________________________________________
This MMS 218 and STII heads, is this keeping the stock 346cid? I really do want to be around 440RWHP. I want low to mid 11's. I was planning on a 3000 stall just to keep it as close to stock feel as I can. Like I said, the track will be visited maybe once or twice just to see what it can do, but it will be driven every day on the street. Does this PYE3400 feel loose.
Re: Nine Ball, need advice... The PYE3400 is a very tight converter, but its also very efficient. The heads/cam route I described will only yeild 390-400rwhp. If you don't race much that might be enough. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> This project could easily come in at double your 9000 budget so you need to itemize everything before you jump in.