Hydra

Have you guys ever used this stuff? check it out at www.evanscooling.com Its supposed to be a water-less (yes that's right, no water) cooling system composed I believe of propylene glycol and some proprietary additives... Having gone over their literature, their claims look impressive... Better heat transfer and thus cooling, reduction of localized hot-spots with a resultant improvement in detonation resistance (so you can run more compression), and no corrosion... What do you guys think of this stuff, assuming one is designing a cooling system from scratch, would this stuff be worth considering?

99WhiteSS

Water, in it's purest form, is the best liquid coolant there is. Propylene glycol is added to coolant systems for freezing point depression and boiling point increase protection. Running as close to a pure water mixture (with Water Wetter) will always provide better cooling results.

Go here: http://www.evanscooling.com/html/tech1.htm#ptbl1

This page is on the Evan's Cooling website and shows the different thermal and chemical properties of the mixtures. Notice the line labeled "Specific Heat." This property shows how much heat energy can be carried away from the engine per pound coolant per degree Fahrenheit change in temperature. As you can see water is the best (1.00 BTU/lbm/F) followed by a 50/50 mixture (0.81) followed by the Evan's NPG(+) at a dismal 0.68. Notice surface tension values as well (dyn/cm, i.e. force per area): Water is the highest at 72 - water carries heat away from the engine walls much better. A simple addition of Water Wetter can improve this number further.

Bottom line. Don't be fooled. Even their own numbers prove it. Heat Transfer/Fluid Flow have been an extensive part of my engineering background.

-Kris

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: 99WhiteSS ]</p>

Tin Indian

Kris is right....

Straight water and Water Wetter is the best. Only problem... That mixture is for trailored race cars. Not worth a damned in a daily driver.

For everyday use, I guess Evans would be great, but its very pricey. I think you would be better off just sticking with the factory coolant fill.

Oh, and by the way, anyone that uses Water Wetter mixed with the standard 50-50 mix of coolant and water is wasting there $$. Like I stated, Water Wetter is designed to work most effectively with straight water. (ie: race car) No gains if mixed with a bunch of coolant.

Ron,

JS

iTrader: (4)

ITS JUNK....
I'd stay away from it...

JS

ChrisB

Evans is NOT junk - it is just not a viable direct replacement for the stock setup.

It does not have the same heat capacity as water - and so it will run a little hotter than a normal water based system will. This isn't neccecarily a bad thing though.

The crux is, heat transfer from the heads isn't only dependant on the thermal capacity of water - if that were the only factor than water would by far be better - but there are other issues. The heat has to flow from the head through a boundry layer to the water, and because of the way water can heat up and turn to steam (look at the vapor pressure) heatflow can actually be impeeded. Not overall, but it can lead to hotspotting.

Is this something I would use on a street car? Nope, not worth it, and probably too much a PITA to get everything to work in concert with it (since you run at an elevated temp you will need to readjust your spark and fuel maps).

Would I consider this in a max effort stroker motor? Yep. It just depends on how serious and exotic you are getting. Just because it isn't applicable to a normal setup doesn't make it junk though.


Chris

JS

iTrader: (4)

Chris I wont try and mix wits with u but I tried it LOONNNNG before u even heard of it.

I know ALOT of NMCA guys that tried it too.
Its too thick and cause's hot spots because its too hard to purge.U get bubbles no matter how hard u try....

We had to jack my car up from one side to the other back in 97 just to get the darm stuff to work and it eventually casued pockect to form.

My NMCA buds had the smae problems and eventually went back to conventional coolant.

I wouldnt try it again....
TOO $$$ and no proven to do SQUAT.
Great theory though...

JS

ChrisB

It is thicker than water, and that has to be factored in also. the NPG+ I believe is closer to the viscosity of water though.

I know Mark Montalvo (quite a few big cube LT1 projects) and Chuck Riddeck (Mr. Horsepower on cz28.co) both have used it and have good things to say about it. Like I said, it's not a good choice for a stock car or something you aren't going to setup for it (including making provisions for the motor running at higher temps - coatings, oil cooler, etc.).


Chris

Hydra

Well posted ChrisB, I was about to say the same thing... This brings us on to my next question.

I am designing a car from scratch. I'll be using an LS1/T56 combo for my driveline. So 've got a bit of freedom to play with things. Usage of Evan's allows the use of a sealed, non-pressurized cooling system. It also allows usage of a smaller radiator right? What internal modifications can/should I do to take advantage of the coolant? How much, if at all, can I increase the CR? What temperature should I run the engine at? Would reverse cooling be more of an advantage with this setup? Again, your feedback would be much appreciated.

JimmyKash

when i had my blower i only used water and water wetter and it was street driven and i never had a problem

the car gets stored in the winter so i dont have to worry about the water freezing

JS

iTrader: (4)

Chris keeps telling u guys
Its not the best way to go for a steet car.

Listen I ran it for a yr.
Its a PITA and I picked up NADDA,TEE TEE from it.
Do what u want but u BETTER know how to correctly purge it.I dont know anythng about the PLUS so I wont comment on it.

Good luck

JS

Hydra

JB, you didn't pick up anything because your application wasn't optimized for the coolant. If you were building a motor from scratch, I'm sure it would have helped you get away with a bit more compression, running a higher coolant temp (with subsequently lower coolant HP losses) and/or a smaller radiator. Remember, I said I am designing a car FROM SCRATCH, and I'm interested in the POTENTIAL gains to be had from this stuff...

JS

iTrader: (4)

HYDRA go back and look at the APRIL 99 issue of High Tech Performance before u accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

I had a 3900LB FIREHAWK that was MORE than optimized for EVANS coolant.


Joel Stein
Former Owner of Hawk From Hell
1997 FIREHAWK 383CI W/DFI&INJ CONTROLLER W/CUSTON 2 STAGE DRY N20 SYSTEM----->BEST ET 10.54@134.56

Hydra

Whoa dude... I didn't mean to offend anyone, you don't suppose it would be too much trouble to elucidate us on the matter? How was your motor more than optimized for the application? And what happened? Surely we can all gain from your experience? Thanks...

JS

iTrader: (4)

We built the motor for N20.
We thought running a COOLANT that kept the CH temps down would be benficial.ALL CALLIES bottem end,JE Dry film coated N20 Pistons,Coated bearings/rings,Splayed Caps etc..Heads were LT1 casting done by Brandywine Cy. Head in my home town.2.02/1.60 Fully race ported flowing 285CFM@28in 550lift.DFI w/50lb low Imp. injectors,Inj Controller w/ flip flop EGT gauges.
JG 4L60E w/PI 3200 verter,10bolt 3.42's.Race weight 3883lbs. Car was a N20 car not a N/A car
It was setup up soley for N20.Consistant 10.50's@130+ w/2 stage 100/100 shot and I know if I wouldve added a 12bolt,upped the spray to a duel 150/150 shot the car had a VERY LOW 10 in her at that race weight.

After running the 0 presure system required by Evans the car ran okay but it developed hot spots in the CH from time ot time,air bubbles in the coolant from being to thick and I didnt by the higher temps thoery/lower temps in the cyl.It just scared me to the point that I went back to conventional coolingWe tested it in my friends 1300HP Turbo Buick with moxed results too.

Eventually he went back to conventional too.
Now Chris sez the have a PLUS version.Maybe its designed better than the old stuff.I dont know.

Funny thing is I know some Comp. dragster guys that run it and love it.For me,I'll stick to Dexcool.

No flames Hydra ,Sorry if i came off cocky.
Good luck

JS

ChrisB

I personally wouldn't bother to do it in a street car, but if you do it I would go ahead and get the bearings, pistons, etc. coated (I would do that anyway though).

Throw in an oil cooler with a thermostat on it. Mainly you will need LS1 edit or an aftermarket DFI and some time on a wideband dyno to tune everything in.

I would still run a 2-4psi cap with the setup, and yes, you need to spend a little more time bleeding it out.

I would honestly spend the money in other places though, unless you have exhausted every other route.

Chris