H/C low dyno's, low MPH..
03-30-2002, 07:47 PM
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H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. I installed a set of stage2 2.05 heads from ARE and a 222/222 .534 114 cam, LS6 intake, and ASP pulley.
My dyno prior to the heads cam was 303rwhp, 345rwtq which was already low compared to my first dyno of 321,387 before my Yank tranny and PT-4400.
My dyno with the above mentioned cam was exactly the same as the cam I just installed Sunday which is 226/234 .552/.575 112.
I would have though I would have gained something from the bigger cam but my dyno sheet looks almost exactly the same other than I am a little richer now.
I ran the car with the first 222/222 cam and I went a best of 11.86@114 1.58 60'. Thats terrible IMO for a car like mine that is gutted and weighs about 3400lbs w/driver. I ran again today with the new cam and only pulled a 12.08@112.8 1.64 60'. It was about 20deg hotter today so that should account for the difference there but it is still horrible.
Could someone tell me what could be causing my low HP and low MPH? Is it the heads not flowing what they are supposed to? Is it the trans sucking out all kinds of power for some odd reason? I mean hell, before the heads,cam,pulley, intake, tranny, PT-4400 I was running 12.50's@110 1.7 60's with just free mods, Yank3000, gutted cats & gears.
My rockers were checked for clearence issues and I have the upgraded valve springs from ARE.
Here is my dyno sheet. http://my.starstream.net/f8lpony/NewCamDyno.jpg
My dyno prior to the heads cam was 303rwhp, 345rwtq which was already low compared to my first dyno of 321,387 before my Yank tranny and PT-4400.
My dyno with the above mentioned cam was exactly the same as the cam I just installed Sunday which is 226/234 .552/.575 112.
I would have though I would have gained something from the bigger cam but my dyno sheet looks almost exactly the same other than I am a little richer now.
I ran the car with the first 222/222 cam and I went a best of 11.86@114 1.58 60'. Thats terrible IMO for a car like mine that is gutted and weighs about 3400lbs w/driver. I ran again today with the new cam and only pulled a 12.08@112.8 1.64 60'. It was about 20deg hotter today so that should account for the difference there but it is still horrible.
Could someone tell me what could be causing my low HP and low MPH? Is it the heads not flowing what they are supposed to? Is it the trans sucking out all kinds of power for some odd reason? I mean hell, before the heads,cam,pulley, intake, tranny, PT-4400 I was running 12.50's@110 1.7 60's with just free mods, Yank3000, gutted cats & gears.
My rockers were checked for clearence issues and I have the upgraded valve springs from ARE.
Here is my dyno sheet. http://my.starstream.net/f8lpony/NewCamDyno.jpg
03-30-2002, 07:53 PM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. Looks like your running pretty rich. I had a problem recently with my car running pig rich .990 O2s.... Turned out to be the MAF sensor filthy with soot. I cleaned it with spray contact cleaner and the O2's are now a perfect .900 A friend who works at a Chevrolet dealership gave me the tip, and said he sees this problem all the time. I'd check it at least.
03-30-2002, 07:54 PM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. Ohh, I had no KR durring any of the pulls, my timing was at 28-30 most of the time (LS1 Edit) and I was pulling fuel out as we went but then I broke the tranny tailshaft housing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
So I know there is maybe another 10hp to be found in leaning it out further but that is still low.
So I know there is maybe another 10hp to be found in leaning it out further but that is still low.
03-30-2002, 08:01 PM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. That's exactly what mine was doing...I'd definitely check the MAF. Look at the small MAF wires inside. Mine were completely black and filthy. You should be able to see the color of the little resistor things. (for lack of a better description). Just spray them with contact cleaner, but do not touch.
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03-31-2002, 05:29 AM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. 1. Low/dyno numbers? Dont even worry about that ca-ca. I mean it is not a supra, so why worry about what the dyno says?
2. Running as rich as you are? I went 10.66 running a PCM tune for stock 28# injectors while i was running 30#'s. Fixing the "tune" was worth just a few ponies on the dyno and I gained a little MPh at the track but my e.t. did not go down one IOTA, in fact it slowed just a bit.
3. Your 60's suck for the parts you got. Once you get a handle on the 60'... everything else will get a LOT better.
4. Look at your "knock" numbers and your "TM".
Either of these will kick your ***. Especially the knock. This can cost you in excess of 80rwhp.
5. Make SURE you are not spinning at the track. Really give this a lot of attention. Verify that you are NOT spinning.
6. An aftermarket tranny/BIG converter will "hide" a good deal of your "dyno" power. Look at my dyno numbers. Not real impresseve. But the "track" numbers are all that really matter, and those I am pretty happy with.
7. If you can swap MAF's with a buddy. Try swapping PCM's, get an autotap and log 4~5 runs and post them. We can better help you out the more info we have. If your only getting 22 degrees of timing and 6 degrees of knock while knocking down 999 o2's and shifting your car at 6200 we could very well have a handle on your probs. but with out info.... it makes it hard.
GOOD LUCK and dont get discouraged.....it's part of the "fun". Lata'
(Sorry I have to go to work....)I'm working a LOT lately. But keep posting and we will try and help all we can.)
2. Running as rich as you are? I went 10.66 running a PCM tune for stock 28# injectors while i was running 30#'s. Fixing the "tune" was worth just a few ponies on the dyno and I gained a little MPh at the track but my e.t. did not go down one IOTA, in fact it slowed just a bit.
3. Your 60's suck for the parts you got. Once you get a handle on the 60'... everything else will get a LOT better.
4. Look at your "knock" numbers and your "TM".
Either of these will kick your ***. Especially the knock. This can cost you in excess of 80rwhp.
5. Make SURE you are not spinning at the track. Really give this a lot of attention. Verify that you are NOT spinning.
6. An aftermarket tranny/BIG converter will "hide" a good deal of your "dyno" power. Look at my dyno numbers. Not real impresseve. But the "track" numbers are all that really matter, and those I am pretty happy with.
7. If you can swap MAF's with a buddy. Try swapping PCM's, get an autotap and log 4~5 runs and post them. We can better help you out the more info we have. If your only getting 22 degrees of timing and 6 degrees of knock while knocking down 999 o2's and shifting your car at 6200 we could very well have a handle on your probs. but with out info.... it makes it hard.
GOOD LUCK and dont get discouraged.....it's part of the "fun". Lata'
(Sorry I have to go to work....)I'm working a LOT lately. But keep posting and we will try and help all we can.)
03-31-2002, 06:24 AM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. F8LPONY - we have very similar setups. I started running 11.7x with the combo, and by tackling various issues as listed by Raughammer, I whittled my way to the low 11's.
Start by leaning the car out. Wideband would be a good starting point. Shiftpoints can make a big difference. With your setup, at least 6500 rpm's. Be patient and make your adjustments one at a time.
Hell, I just found out this week that the Yank TPE4400 I'm running was built for nitrous. Partially explains why I've been scratching my head over my 60' times (stock suspension doesn't help either).
So there's always things to adjust on a setup, even if you're not exactly sure at the time what it is.
Start by leaning the car out. Wideband would be a good starting point. Shiftpoints can make a big difference. With your setup, at least 6500 rpm's. Be patient and make your adjustments one at a time.
Hell, I just found out this week that the Yank TPE4400 I'm running was built for nitrous. Partially explains why I've been scratching my head over my 60' times (stock suspension doesn't help either).
So there's always things to adjust on a setup, even if you're not exactly sure at the time what it is.
03-31-2002, 08:52 AM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. Thx guys , I was hoping for this type of response. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I gonna use John's list to clear up my info. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
1. I usually hate the dyno and only use it to tune AFR becuase my #'s always suck but my ET did'nt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
2. I am running rich but like you said before I don't gain very much by leaning it out. I ran 12.08@113 with AFR below 9.0 then leaned it out and only gained 2 10ths and 1 MPH on the old cam.
3. My 60' really bothers me. I get NO wheelspin at all. I launch at 2200-3200rpm on 15" ET Streets with stock rear springs and an airbag and nothing seems to work. My best 60' ever with this setup is a 1.58 and I think I got a mid 1.5 yesterday but the timing lights were broke.
4. I set my TQ managment # to 600hp on LS1 Edit so I should not have to worry about that anymore. Plus the car no longer falls on its face during the 2nd to 3rd shift.
7. I Will try swapping MAFs and see if that helps. My timing is always 28-30 thoughout most of the run except around 5200-5500 where it drops to 25 or so because thats where the factory dip was for hp&tq to cross. My o2's were kinda high in the .940-.960 range but I had no KR at all so I am not sure timing is the issue unless I need less timing for some reason.
Thank you guys so much for the help. I just need to get it dialed as much as possible so I can rule out bad hardware as part of the problem.
I gonna use John's list to clear up my info. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
1. I usually hate the dyno and only use it to tune AFR becuase my #'s always suck but my ET did'nt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
2. I am running rich but like you said before I don't gain very much by leaning it out. I ran 12.08@113 with AFR below 9.0 then leaned it out and only gained 2 10ths and 1 MPH on the old cam.
3. My 60' really bothers me. I get NO wheelspin at all. I launch at 2200-3200rpm on 15" ET Streets with stock rear springs and an airbag and nothing seems to work. My best 60' ever with this setup is a 1.58 and I think I got a mid 1.5 yesterday but the timing lights were broke.
4. I set my TQ managment # to 600hp on LS1 Edit so I should not have to worry about that anymore. Plus the car no longer falls on its face during the 2nd to 3rd shift.
7. I Will try swapping MAFs and see if that helps. My timing is always 28-30 thoughout most of the run except around 5200-5500 where it drops to 25 or so because thats where the factory dip was for hp&tq to cross. My o2's were kinda high in the .940-.960 range but I had no KR at all so I am not sure timing is the issue unless I need less timing for some reason.
Thank you guys so much for the help. I just need to get it dialed as much as possible so I can rule out bad hardware as part of the problem.
03-31-2002, 01:40 PM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. I'll get my laptop up and running again tomorrow and I'll start leaning it out after I see what the stock MAF will do for me. Once I get the AFR nailed I'll post back with some #'s and see what you guys think.
Thx again guys.
Thx again guys.
03-31-2002, 09:17 PM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cantdrv65:
<strong>Looks like your running pretty rich. I had a problem recently with my car running pig rich .990 O2s.... Turned out to be the MAF sensor filthy with soot. I cleaned it with spray contact cleaner and the O2's are now a perfect .900 A friend who works at a Chevrolet dealership gave me the tip, and said he sees this problem all the time. I'd check it at least.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where can I get CONTACT CLEANER from, My MAF is nasty as hell and was wondering how to clean it.
<strong>Looks like your running pretty rich. I had a problem recently with my car running pig rich .990 O2s.... Turned out to be the MAF sensor filthy with soot. I cleaned it with spray contact cleaner and the O2's are now a perfect .900 A friend who works at a Chevrolet dealership gave me the tip, and said he sees this problem all the time. I'd check it at least.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where can I get CONTACT CLEANER from, My MAF is nasty as hell and was wondering how to clean it.
04-01-2002, 12:42 AM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">6. An aftermarket tranny/BIG converter will "hide" a good deal of your "dyno" power. Look at my dyno numbers. Not real impresseve. But the "track" numbers are all that really matter, and those I am pretty happy with.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">but not if the converter is locked... right
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">3. Your 60's suck for the parts you got. Once you get a handle on the 60'... everything else will get a LOT better.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">can he even pull anything better with that power???
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">but not if the converter is locked... right
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">3. Your 60's suck for the parts you got. Once you get a handle on the 60'... everything else will get a LOT better.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">can he even pull anything better with that power???
04-01-2002, 12:44 AM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. A high 1.5 isn't that bad of a 60' time. You're only .05ths away from a really good 60' time. You should be making about 400rwhp unlocked with your combo, so there is 40rwhp hiding in there some where. AF ratio is a good place to start!
04-01-2002, 10:20 AM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dmoney:
<strong>
Where can I get CONTACT CLEANER from, My MAF is nasty as hell and was wondering how to clean it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Radio Shack.
Take the MAF off and spray it with the cleaner.
<strong>
Where can I get CONTACT CLEANER from, My MAF is nasty as hell and was wondering how to clean it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Radio Shack.
Take the MAF off and spray it with the cleaner.
04-02-2002, 12:44 AM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. Ok took some readings, by cleaning my MAF with contact cleaner my O2's went from .990 to .890, perfect. It seems to have picked up at least 20rwhp on the BUTT-O-GRAM. I'll see at the track for sure. On another note my A/F meter showed .002 when I sprayed for a very short time yesterday. Turns out my fuel solenoid had failed closed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Anyone with a TNT N2O system beware of cheap fuel with ANY ETHANOL aaditive. <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />
<small>[ April 01, 2002, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: cantdrv65 ]</small>
<small>[ April 01, 2002, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: cantdrv65 ]</small>
04-03-2002, 09:28 AM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. Well, tried to do a basline dyno yesterday with my timing and AFR still out of whack and locking the converter.
I forgot to tell the guy driving to lock it up around 5600rpm and it got locked up through the whole 3rd gear pull! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
The #'s were still low 365rwhp,355rwtq but the curve looked normal now. It was steadily climbing through the rpm range all the way to 6600 were we stopped. There was also a real bad dip in AFR around 5500 all the way to 6600 where it was mostly in the 11.1 area and down to 10.1 in 1 big spot. I never got another run because my tailshaft broke AGAIN! But I think I am on the right track. With the timing fixed and the AFR figured out and locking it up in the right RPM I still might hit 400rwhp locked.
I forgot to tell the guy driving to lock it up around 5600rpm and it got locked up through the whole 3rd gear pull! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
The #'s were still low 365rwhp,355rwtq but the curve looked normal now. It was steadily climbing through the rpm range all the way to 6600 were we stopped. There was also a real bad dip in AFR around 5500 all the way to 6600 where it was mostly in the 11.1 area and down to 10.1 in 1 big spot. I never got another run because my tailshaft broke AGAIN! But I think I am on the right track. With the timing fixed and the AFR figured out and locking it up in the right RPM I still might hit 400rwhp locked.
04-03-2002, 05:39 PM
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Re: H/C low dyno's, low MPH.. I am running stock injectors but I have an SLP MAF and I had bumped up the timing in that range which made me run even more rich.
I put the timing back to stock today and I will see what that does for my AFR. I will probably put the stock MAF back on also just to make things easy and remove 1 more variable.
I put the timing back to stock today and I will see what that does for my AFR. I will probably put the stock MAF back on also just to make things easy and remove 1 more variable.