Phate

iTrader: (2)

Guys,

I ran my car at the track this weekend and all I could manage was a 12.8 @ 107 (this is at a sea-level track <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> )...I was on ET streets, but all that I could cut was a 1.9x 60ft.

Here are the mods that I recently installed:
-ARE Stage II heads (these are ported for FI, but the turbos are currently off the car)
-218/218 .518 114 cam
-LS6 Intake
-Stock manifolds !cats

The car is pretty much untuned (I have LS1 Edit and a WB o2, but didn't get much of a chance to tune at the track). I will definitely be doing more in-depth tuning this weekend...I was getting about 4 degrees of KR from 4000 up to 6200 where I was shifting the car.

Are these horrible #'s untuned? What can I expect to run once the car is dialed in? The car went 13.4 @ 109 at a 2500 ft. track when it was close to stock <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Thanks,

Scott

Holes02

That KR is really hurting you.
Get the car properly tuned and ditch those stock manifolds! A set of MACs or some Dynatechs would be great.
Dont worry, once you get things dialed in, the car will move.

2000^C5

<img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />

I would be very concerned if I were you!!
Does the car feel stronger than before or weaker?

Phate

iTrader: (2)

I would say that the car feels about the same as it did before...maybe a little more power at the top end.

I am also pushing a 9" now with smaller gears though.

I am going to head back to the track after I get some time to tune it and see what happens. My MPH is what bothers me the most....

Scott

TexassTA

Humm,sounds like it is a second or more too slow in the 1/4 mile.I use to run that(12.80) every day in my 99 TA with only a lid,hooker shorties and 4.10 gears. If I were you I`d be very upset.

JPR

Hey Scott,
No worries, are you running FI programming? that will set your power output off a bit. Do you have larger than stock injectors in too? I would just get it on a dyno with a wide band and tune it in form there, 4 degrees isn't all that severe, but enough to eat up some power. The stock manifolds are only good to 376 - 380 RWH and you should be above that for sure. BTW what compression ratio are they set for if there for FI?

<small>[ April 22, 2002, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: JPR ]</small>

Carlitos

Get some headers. A free flowing heads and cam package will not flow with a restricted exhaust. Many people see 20 rwhp gains with good headers on stock internal motors. I'm sure you'd get a lot more with your current setup.

With a 1.9 60', I'm guessing your not using slicks. The first 60' can make or break you in the 1/4.

'Los

Phate

iTrader: (2)

The programming that I slammed in there was the stock program from my car, with an attempt to adjust for the 38 lb/hr Lucas injectors that are in there...

Something else that I forgot to mention...I relocated the battery to the back and the 3ft. ground wire doesn't seem to be doing the job.

Could a bad ground screw up my sensor inputs at higher RPM? After the battery relocation I can rev the car up not moving and at around 4000 the speedo would be @ 20 MPH !?!

I ordered a long cable from summit and am running the ground to the front of the car...anymore ideas?

Thanks,

Scott

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Which way are you going, FI or NA?

NA, well I'd shift at 6400, shoot for a 13:1 AF on the dyno), and run 28 degrees of timing but try running more for testing.

I'd come out of the whole higher.

I'd be shooting for mid teens at 2500 raceweight.

If your car has a crappy tune in it, you might be at like 11:1 AF and have low timing.

If you are tuning via the MAF Translator I would lean it out until it slows down, and then maybe back it off a hair.

What are your Ltrims, -something? Not good, it's running too rich. You can also get your plugs wet and end up getting poor combustion.

In my 11.2:1 ARE 422ci, we run 31 degrees of timing on 92 pump gas, and Ltrims are +/-5. I am running 39lb injectors. All of this is tuned via LS1 Edit.

If you are getting poor gas mileage like 140miles/tank that is indicative of running rich.

Phate

iTrader: (2)

I am going FI, and the car was FI...but one of the turbos got damaged and is getting repaired.

So, I slapped stock manifolds on it after I did the H/C and intake to see how it would feel. I wanted to get it running until the turbos went back on.

Anyway...the car gets decent mileage when cruising, but horrible mileage when I am on it.

I am tuning via LS1edit and a WB o2, but to be honest I didn't get much of a chance to play with it at the track...Ltrims were -9 on average.

Scott

BADZ

iTrader: (5)

you need the tuning is what your trouble sounds to be....I have a friend in the same boat as you but I think he will spend that extra bit to get the tuning right...

good luck!!!

Oregon LS1

This may sound funny to a lot of people in this forum, but I have seen 2 different people slow down after the addition of a heads/cam package. What happened was the rocker arms were not shimmed properly!!! With many 2.02x1.55 heads, machinists will sink the valve job in order to get all the big valve in the stock seat. This raises the valve height, so when you tighten down the rocker arms that will bottom out the lifter. This can cause serious problems, but with a lot of people it just shows up as a giant power loss. I am not saying that this is the problem, but it is worth looking into!!!!

Shandy Price
President, EMT Racing

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I had too much lifter preload a few years ago and the car ran like ***.

A buddy did that too, and his car flatlined on the dyno at like 5900 rpms.

Our pushrods were too long.

We had like 100 thou preload.

Phate

iTrader: (2)

The heads are 2.08/1.6 valved heads and I am running 7.350 pushrods.

When the car went together the pushrods were too long and the car wouldn't start because there was no compression.

I talked to Nick at ARE and he said that I should be fine with the 7.350 pushrods.

Anyone else?

Scott

CHRISPY

Alright there are some things going on here you need to consider...
First is the compression ratio of the heads. If the heads are setup for a blower you will not see the same gains NA from a heads/cam swap that you would from a NA purpose built setup.
Second, Get those stock manifolds off the car. A good set of headers with low restriction bullet or ultraflo muffler will add 35RWHP easily and probably 3mph or more. If you comp ratio is at 9.5:1 you will be down about 15RWHP right off the bat vs an 11.2:1 compression and that doesnt reflect porting differences from FI to NA as well.
Third is the tune, it is obviously way out of wack and probably has 20RWHP in it at least.
So you probably have lost 15 RWHP in compression, 35RWHP from the exhaust setup and 20RWHP from the tune.
If you add that up it makes sense that you are running 12.8@107mph. With blower ported Stage 1 heads I ran 118mph in my car with headers, great catback and stock programming on slicks naturally aspirated and almost 127mph on 5#'s of boost.

Hope this helps, you have a TON of power left in your combo. One more piece of advice, dial it in as best you can NA before throwing on the power adder. This means exhaust, tuning for the bigger injectors etc and then retune after the power added and get your AF around 12.2-12.5:1 on the dyno.
Cheers,
Chris

<small>[ April 23, 2002, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>

Phate

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Chris,

Those things were all in my plans...except for the headers. I'm not going to invest anymore money in my NA combo, it is wasted $$$.

I am going to change plugs, check lifter pre-load, and tune the car this weekend and probably head to the track the weekend after that.

Hopefully I will see some good increases...

Thanks,

Scott

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

Were you at Carlsbad Sunday? You should be in
the 113mph range, get that car on a dyno and do some tuning.

CHRISPY

ahh I didnt realize you were Turbo, must have missed that part <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris

Phate

iTrader: (2)

Terry,

I got a WB setup and installed it on Friday, but due to a bunch of stuff I didn't really have time to tune.

I will be tuning on the street and see what kind of gains I can make.

I was at Carlsbad on Sunday...that is where I ran my sh#tty times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> Were you out there? I was over with a bunch of friends who brought Lightnings and the black Mustang with the blue flames.

Scott

mikey

iTrader: (6)

OK, couple questions:

1. Who installed the package?
2. Do you have double springs?
2A. Did you clearance the valve covers?
2B. Did you clearance the rockers?
3. Stock cat-back?
4. Stock Y pipe?

Get rid of those manifolds. With the small cam and stock manifolds, you aren't going to do any better.

Get it tuned.

All in all, I am surprised you actually made that much power with what you have.

Mike