Reverse torquer cam (the other side of the coin)
Originally Posted by gillbot
When moving from stock heads and LS6 intake to ported heads and fast 90 setup, is it worth it to pull the reverse split cam (TR230) and move toward a more conventional duration cam. I know a cam closer matched to the heads and intake will perform better but is purchasing another cam on top of the intake and heads REALLY worth it for the gain especially when max effort isn't your goal?
Originally Posted by gillbot
I'm guessing my question got overlooked?
Originally Posted by Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.
This isn't a new discussion. This is old school! 
One of our more popular cams over three years ago was a 232/228, .595"/.588", 112 LSA.
One of our more popular cams over three years ago was a 232/228, .595"/.588", 112 LSA. I had the TR230 for 1 year. It was the first cam I bought and I was very impressed. It dyno'd 390rwhp with ls6 int, flp lts and ewp and a pulley. Times below.
I can't help but to wonder what there TR236/230 would be like with some good heads.
I kinda wish I would have stuck with the TR230 for a few more years to get everything out of it that I could have. The car was tuned for running N/A. I only sprayed it with the 150 shot 1 night at the track and the slowest time was 10.99 on a bad shift. Out of 3 passes. Makes me wonder. LOL.
I can't help but to wonder what there TR236/230 would be like with some good heads.
I kinda wish I would have stuck with the TR230 for a few more years to get everything out of it that I could have. The car was tuned for running N/A. I only sprayed it with the 150 shot 1 night at the track and the slowest time was 10.99 on a bad shift. Out of 3 passes. Makes me wonder. LOL.
Originally Posted by JRracing
I had the TR230 for 1 year. It was the first cam I bought and I was very impressed. It dyno'd 390rwhp with ls6 int, flp lts and ewp and a pulley. Times below.
I can't help but to wonder what there TR236/230 would be like with some good heads.
I kinda wish I would have stuck with the TR230 for a few more years to get everything out of it that I could have. The car was tuned for running N/A. I only sprayed it with the 150 shot 1 night at the track and the slowest time was 10.99 on a bad shift. Out of 3 passes. Makes me wonder. LOL.
I can't help but to wonder what there TR236/230 would be like with some good heads.
I kinda wish I would have stuck with the TR230 for a few more years to get everything out of it that I could have. The car was tuned for running N/A. I only sprayed it with the 150 shot 1 night at the track and the slowest time was 10.99 on a bad shift. Out of 3 passes. Makes me wonder. LOL.
Originally Posted by Slowhawk
I ran the TR236/230 when they first came out in my Firehawk.I'm pretty sure the car put out 440hp.415tq with mild ported stock heads,FLP's threw a 12 bolt.Car ran great with the limited tuning software that was out then.
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by JRracing
Dam impressive #'s slowhawk. Just think what that would be with todays aftermarket heads/90mm intake and great tuning. I bet 475rwhp would be possible.
I know this is not "breakthrough" tech, but what I'm trying to present, with todays tuning innovations (also SD tuning), we are capable of running much tighter LSA cams. 14* overlap on a 232 cam only with 41 EVO is gonna make a hell of a lot of trq below the curve. All this can be run with LS6 intake, stock heads, good exhaust, ported TB. Bottom line much cheaper with rivaling results to H/C trq.
Will work even better on LS6 headed cars (higher compression, better flow)
Also a lot of folks tend to dismiss reverse splits outright, thinking they are no good, because they are unnaware of what "below the curve" is really all about and just think "peak".
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
232/228, .595/.588 108-1 LSA (108LSA/109 ICL)
That should make killer midrange trq, peak about 6300 (depending on intake), and carry very well after peak. On top of that 14* overlap for ground shaking lope (and a nice indication of the power it can make)
Yet it remains kinda small, without using huge lifts (no wimps either but still more realistic to the average head parameters that we see).
So there it is for perusal and discussion.
That should make killer midrange trq, peak about 6300 (depending on intake), and carry very well after peak. On top of that 14* overlap for ground shaking lope (and a nice indication of the power it can make)
Yet it remains kinda small, without using huge lifts (no wimps either but still more realistic to the average head parameters that we see).
So there it is for perusal and discussion.
My setup will be basically a track only car. stock shortblock except rodbolts and will possibly flycut, ewp, drag alt, ls6 manifold, ported tb, ls6 heads with close to 11.5 to 12.1 comp. I shift at 7000 and have hp tuners also. I am looking for a cam that will give me great power bu not go to aftermarket heads or 90/90.
i would be interested in getting a custom ground cam along the specs you posted but maybe a little larger cam, I would get it dynod and post numbers. Thanks, Tim
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Well you see that 's the trick, once you go hi flow ported heads and 90/90, themn you can benefit more from traditional splits.
.
.
I thought you might come back with that answer.
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by Smokin87TA
PREDATOR-Z this sounds like a great cam and i am looking to possibly go this direction but possibly on a little bigger scale. Could you possibly throw some specs for a cam that would work with what i am doing. Help is very much appreciated and i am looking into swapping from my ms3 to a cam along these lines.
My setup will be basically a track only car. stock shortblock except rodbolts and will possibly flycut, ewp, drag alt, ls6 manifold, ported tb, ls6 heads with close to 11.5 to 12.1 comp. I shift at 7000 and have hp tuners also. I am looking for a cam that will give me great power bu not go to aftermarket heads or 90/90.
i would be interested in getting a custom ground cam along the specs you posted but maybe a little larger cam, I would get it dynod and post numbers. Thanks, Tim
My setup will be basically a track only car. stock shortblock except rodbolts and will possibly flycut, ewp, drag alt, ls6 manifold, ported tb, ls6 heads with close to 11.5 to 12.1 comp. I shift at 7000 and have hp tuners also. I am looking for a cam that will give me great power bu not go to aftermarket heads or 90/90.
i would be interested in getting a custom ground cam along the specs you posted but maybe a little larger cam, I would get it dynod and post numbers. Thanks, Tim
.050 VEs
9>IVO
49>IVC
45>EVO
9>EVC
108>ECL
18* Overlap
This with 2cc reliefs, 59cc heads, .040 gasket will net you 11.5:1 SCR and ~8.48 DCR
The reason i wouldn't go bigger than that is no point too much more lift on unported heads (not that big of a gain VS valvetrain instability)
I would run the lightest valvetrain you can put in with 918 springs.
Like (hollow valves, 918's, Tit. retainers, locks)
Again with LS6 intake, >>6300/6400 rpm peak, will carry and carry past that to neverland with a very flat peak. with proper gearing and suspension + hook this is a serious mid 10's setup (maybe less depending on car weight)
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Interesting cam there PRED. My initial questions would be:
1. free flowing exhaust?
2. how much overlap do you need before the exhaust starts over-scavenging?
3. high RPM likes earlier EVO?
4. more overlap narrows the peak power band?
1. free flowing exhaust?
2. how much overlap do you need before the exhaust starts over-scavenging?
3. high RPM likes earlier EVO?
4. more overlap narrows the peak power band?
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From: BFE
1-The more free flow the better (true dual a plus)
2-Well that would depend on type of header, Tri-Y with long primaries a plus, with the right collector (avoid unnecessary reversal)- (there is such things as header tuning )
3- No, high midrange TRQ likes earlier EVO. Higher IVC, coupled with equidistant (IVO/EVC) or intake biased IVO/EVC from TDC will tell how far the power is carried.
4- No, but depending on VEs more overlap can make cam "peaky". It is just a matter of "tweaking" the VEs.
Of course this is all relative to rest of combo (like to which degree it does what it does) and i'm talking here on 346 cubes (mainly LSx)
2-Well that would depend on type of header, Tri-Y with long primaries a plus, with the right collector (avoid unnecessary reversal)- (there is such things as header tuning
)3- No, high midrange TRQ likes earlier EVO. Higher IVC, coupled with equidistant (IVO/EVC) or intake biased IVO/EVC from TDC will tell how far the power is carried.
4- No, but depending on VEs more overlap can make cam "peaky". It is just a matter of "tweaking" the VEs.
Of course this is all relative to rest of combo (like to which degree it does what it does) and i'm talking here on 346 cubes (mainly LSx)
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all of this talk about reverse splits has started to sway my cam choice tward them. because im not even concerned with peak numbers just about whats down below the curve. torque is what gets the ladies and wins the races.
Torque at RPMs wins races. Don't kid yourself. It's great to make 500ft lbs, but if you can only hold it to 4500rpm, it doesn't do much good when the other guy is cranking out his 450ft lbs to 7k.
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by N4cer
Torque at RPMs wins races. Don't kid yourself. It's great to make 500ft lbs, but if you can only hold it to 4500rpm, it doesn't do much good when the other guy is cranking out his 450ft lbs to 7k.
Now im a little confused. It sounds like i should be leaning more toward the 232/228 .595/.588 for my 98 Z. I am extra DD M6, LS6 intake, LTs, Catted Y borla Mouth. Im not trying to spin to 7000, more like 6300 or 6400.
Would the 228/232 .588/.595 110+4 be better for me, or should i get a new one in my plans like the 232/228, .595/.588 108-1 LSA (108LSA/109 ICL)?
Would the 228/232 .588/.595 110+4 be better for me, or should i get a new one in my plans like the 232/228, .595/.588 108-1 LSA (108LSA/109 ICL)?
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by KurtRardin
Now im a little confused. It sounds like i should be leaning more toward the 232/228 .595/.588 for my 98 Z. I am extra DD M6, LS6 intake, LTs, Catted Y borla Mouth. Im not trying to spin to 7000, more like 6300 or 6400.
Would the 228/232 .588/.595 110+4 be better for me, or should i get a new one in my plans like the 232/228, .595/.588 108-1 LSA (108LSA/109 ICL)?
Would the 228/232 .588/.595 110+4 be better for me, or should i get a new one in my plans like the 232/228, .595/.588 108-1 LSA (108LSA/109 ICL)?
228/232, .588/.595 110+4
Or
232/228, .595/.588 110-1
Both have 10* overlap
The difference will be under the curve with the reverse carrying further "less peaky".
I would take the reverse on a cam only.