Reverse torquer cam (the other side of the coin)
i can only imagine how much fun it will be to tune...the ol vinci tuner might not be up to the task. Som would this cam be installed dot to dot as well? I know the 110+4 was going to be a little forgiving.
Also, how did you get to be in Dubai?
Also, how did you get to be in Dubai?
how about a reverse cheatr?! 
230 214 117 lsa ?
since many people say it`s best with srtock exhaust
this should be (according to them) Headers with duals (straight throughs) or dual cutout Y cam !
well if it`s as quit as a cheatr shoudn`t it make more power? (more air and fuel in)
is a 232 xe or xer 208 xer or lsk with a lsa of 115 is somewhat of a sleeper with a smooth ide as a 220 220 on a 115?
sheesh i I new about ve`s evo ivc batdc abcd **** I could think of these crazy (literally) ideas .
230 214 117 lsa ? since many people say it`s best with srtock exhaust
this should be (according to them) Headers with duals (straight throughs) or dual cutout Y cam !
well if it`s as quit as a cheatr shoudn`t it make more power? (more air and fuel in)
is a 232 xe or xer 208 xer or lsk with a lsa of 115 is somewhat of a sleeper with a smooth ide as a 220 220 on a 115?
sheesh i I new about ve`s evo ivc batdc abcd **** I could think of these crazy (literally) ideas .
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by KurtRardin
i can only imagine how much fun it will be to tune...the ol vinci tuner might not be up to the task. Som would this cam be installed dot to dot as well? I know the 110+4 was going to be a little forgiving.
Also, how did you get to be in Dubai?
Also, how did you get to be in Dubai?
It is when it gets above 15* that it starts being trickier. There ia always good old SD tune
Funny you should mention reverse split. Messing around with pianoprodigy's spreadsheet, I came up with a 230/228 .592/.588 110+1, which I thought might work well with some small runner heads like PRC's Terminators. Those heads are 62cc out of the box, and coupled with a .04 gasket would create an 8.73 DCR / 11.33 SCR.
This cam initially appealed to me because I figured it would pull well to ~6200 with an IVC of 44 and still make good torque with a relatively late EVO of 45 and a slightly exhaust biased overlap, especially when coupled with 200cc heads. If I understand valve events correctly, your cam would make better TQ while also making peak a bit higher? The drawback (IMO) is that with 14* overlap, it'll lope like a ****. I'm not looking for stealth, but would like at least some civility. If I were to put "my" cam on a 109+0, that would increase overlap by 2* to 11*, while bringing EVO down 2*, thus creating more TQ while giving little top end, correct? What would the difference in lope be? Is my thought process sound? Sorry for the long post, I am still learning this stuff and would like to know if I'm on the right track.
For reference, the car's an '02 Vette with MN6, Blackwing intake, ported stock TB, LG Long Tubes w/ Random Tech cats, and B&B cat back. It is a 98% street car with occasional trips to the drag strip or road course. It's not a DD, but I live in an area where miles of bumper to bumper traffic and dozens of stoplights could be between you and your destination.
This cam initially appealed to me because I figured it would pull well to ~6200 with an IVC of 44 and still make good torque with a relatively late EVO of 45 and a slightly exhaust biased overlap, especially when coupled with 200cc heads. If I understand valve events correctly, your cam would make better TQ while also making peak a bit higher? The drawback (IMO) is that with 14* overlap, it'll lope like a ****. I'm not looking for stealth, but would like at least some civility. If I were to put "my" cam on a 109+0, that would increase overlap by 2* to 11*, while bringing EVO down 2*, thus creating more TQ while giving little top end, correct? What would the difference in lope be? Is my thought process sound? Sorry for the long post, I am still learning this stuff and would like to know if I'm on the right track.
For reference, the car's an '02 Vette with MN6, Blackwing intake, ported stock TB, LG Long Tubes w/ Random Tech cats, and B&B cat back. It is a 98% street car with occasional trips to the drag strip or road course. It's not a DD, but I live in an area where miles of bumper to bumper traffic and dozens of stoplights could be between you and your destination.
I had a reverse split on my last car with a great exhaust and mediocre heads. It worked pretty well.
The thing that strikes me about this cam is that a 41* EVO is pretty late in the game for a cam with sizable overlap and an IVC tilted toward higher end power (45*). Are there P/V or DCR issues that prevent you from using a 107 ICL? (I don't have my DCR calculator handy as I type this, so I haven't checked it for higher compression heads) That would change from a 45/41 to a 43/43 and seem to have more balance in terms of what you are trying to accomplish.
Food for thought... reduce overlap to 10* and use a 110 LSA and 108 ICL. That fits within your easy to tune window.
The thing that strikes me about this cam is that a 41* EVO is pretty late in the game for a cam with sizable overlap and an IVC tilted toward higher end power (45*). Are there P/V or DCR issues that prevent you from using a 107 ICL? (I don't have my DCR calculator handy as I type this, so I haven't checked it for higher compression heads) That would change from a 45/41 to a 43/43 and seem to have more balance in terms of what you are trying to accomplish.
Food for thought... reduce overlap to 10* and use a 110 LSA and 108 ICL. That fits within your easy to tune window.
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
I work for an airline here. 10* overlap is not hard to tune. Reverse are easier than standards.
It is when it gets above 15* that it starts being trickier. There ia always good old SD tune
It is when it gets above 15* that it starts being trickier. There ia always good old SD tune
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Verdad Gallardo id say the 10 degree is. He and i have been talking about a cam for my car which is a DD, so id say anything that he recommends to me would be a great steet cam. In the beginning of this thread he mentioned that the reverse split would compliment the "budget" LS1er because of its ability to work with craptastic heads, like my 98 heads. If i understand it correctly this cam would make great under the curve power, peaking at maybe 63 or 6400. Also, i believe it would work with some high gears, like 3.42. The big cams are harder to take off with if you have stock gears, kinda like starting off in second gear...you need to wind it up a little and dance with the clutch.
But i could be wrong in my assumptions, after all i didnt get my PHD in cam geometry like PatricG or Predator. Valve events and all this DCR stuff blows my mind.
But i could be wrong in my assumptions, after all i didnt get my PHD in cam geometry like PatricG or Predator. Valve events and all this DCR stuff blows my mind.
I was thinking of custom ordering one of these Comp cams:
3726 intake, 3724 exhaust (232/228 .595/.588) 112+2
3727 intake, 3726 exhaust (234/232 .598/.595) 112+2
This would be in a cam-only (LTs, no cats, stock catback) 3600-stall '04 GTO.
Which would be better? Suggestions for different advance (+1, +3)? I'd like to stay under 10* of overlap, hence the 112LSA.
edit: Shift point around 6500 or less (since I have no plans on changing the rod bolts, and if I don't need to spin it higher I don't want to).
3726 intake, 3724 exhaust (232/228 .595/.588) 112+2
3727 intake, 3726 exhaust (234/232 .598/.595) 112+2
This would be in a cam-only (LTs, no cats, stock catback) 3600-stall '04 GTO.
Which would be better? Suggestions for different advance (+1, +3)? I'd like to stay under 10* of overlap, hence the 112LSA.
edit: Shift point around 6500 or less (since I have no plans on changing the rod bolts, and if I don't need to spin it higher I don't want to).
Last edited by KrisR; Feb 8, 2007 at 03:13 PM.
I did a 226/224 111LSA cam for a buddy. Can't take any credit for it because I basically copied one of Shaun's (93Pony) cams.
It's a 6.0L with stock heads, long tubes, and the cam.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t...6-224-111-.jpg
... hello torque
It's a 6.0L with stock heads, long tubes, and the cam.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t...6-224-111-.jpg
... hello torque
Originally Posted by Patrick G
When you have a really good exhaust and are somewhat intake restricted, reverse splits make a lot of sense. A perfect example is when you're running stock heads with LS6 intake and long tube headers with off-road exhaust. A single pattern cam or reverse split cam works great there.
If you had really good cylinder heads with strong exhaust flow, but were still running LS6 intake and 78mm TB, then the single pattern or reverse split would make sense. Or, if you just wanted to limit your overlap while keeping your intake lobe as large as possible, then the reverse splits work well. I really like them for specific applications and will spec them from time to time. Mark (Predator) is right on with his thinking (as usual).
If you had really good cylinder heads with strong exhaust flow, but were still running LS6 intake and 78mm TB, then the single pattern or reverse split would make sense. Or, if you just wanted to limit your overlap while keeping your intake lobe as large as possible, then the reverse splits work well. I really like them for specific applications and will spec them from time to time. Mark (Predator) is right on with his thinking (as usual).
I currently have 230/230 XER
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by KrisR
I was thinking of custom ordering one of these Comp cams:
3726 intake, 3724 exhaust (232/228 .595/.588) 112+2
3727 intake, 3726 exhaust (234/232 .598/.595) 112+2
This would be in a cam-only (LTs, no cats, stock catback) 3600-stall '04 GTO.
Which would be better? Suggestions for different advance (+1, +3)? I'd like to stay under 10* of overlap, hence the 112LSA.
edit: Shift point around 6500 or less (since I have no plans on changing the rod bolts, and if I don't need to spin it higher I don't want to).
3726 intake, 3724 exhaust (232/228 .595/.588) 112+2
3727 intake, 3726 exhaust (234/232 .598/.595) 112+2
This would be in a cam-only (LTs, no cats, stock catback) 3600-stall '04 GTO.
Which would be better? Suggestions for different advance (+1, +3)? I'd like to stay under 10* of overlap, hence the 112LSA.
edit: Shift point around 6500 or less (since I have no plans on changing the rod bolts, and if I don't need to spin it higher I don't want to).
You should make the IVO & EVC either equidistant (same distance) from TDC or 1* biased to intake. Because you want the cam to carry that peak for as long as possible. Where you shift is a matter of your preference.
IMO I wouldn't get that cam with more than a 111-1 LSA/ICL, Kinda beats the pupose of keeping as much trq in the midrange.
Actualy 111-1 and 110-1 with 8* and 10* overlap would be my pick for street/strip
The initial 108-1 of this thread would be more biased towards strip, Ragtop99 raised a good point about the 41* IVO and 14* Overlap. Where is my R&D team?
Good discussion. I was looking at an MTI X1, and figured it would be great for me as a cam-only set-up, but I was worried about losing out on with nitrous.
I know this isn't the nitrous section, but I've heard that because nitrous needs extra exhaust flow(thereby perfering exhaust bias cams) that using a reverse split cam can cut down on power...even on small shots(like a 100whp shot, making 75whp). I don't plan on running huge nitrous, just a 150 to start, and maybe up to a 200, but is there truth to this, or was it just someone with no experience blowing steam?
I know this isn't the nitrous section, but I've heard that because nitrous needs extra exhaust flow(thereby perfering exhaust bias cams) that using a reverse split cam can cut down on power...even on small shots(like a 100whp shot, making 75whp). I don't plan on running huge nitrous, just a 150 to start, and maybe up to a 200, but is there truth to this, or was it just someone with no experience blowing steam?
Originally Posted by rosey
Good discussion. I was looking at an MTI X1, and figured it would be great for me as a cam-only set-up, but I was worried about losing out on with nitrous.
I know this isn't the nitrous section, but I've heard that because nitrous needs extra exhaust flow(thereby perfering exhaust bias cams) that using a reverse split cam can cut down on power...even on small shots(like a 100whp shot, making 75whp). I don't plan on running huge nitrous, just a 150 to start, and maybe up to a 200, but is there truth to this, or was it just someone with no experience blowing steam?
I know this isn't the nitrous section, but I've heard that because nitrous needs extra exhaust flow(thereby perfering exhaust bias cams) that using a reverse split cam can cut down on power...even on small shots(like a 100whp shot, making 75whp). I don't plan on running huge nitrous, just a 150 to start, and maybe up to a 200, but is there truth to this, or was it just someone with no experience blowing steam?
thats the cam i was also looking at. but ive talked to sponsors bout nitrous and revese split, and they say u can run nitrous with a reverse split. only when u go bigger than like a 150 shot then the more traditional split is the way to go... a guy named beard ws6 ( who i bugged alot, but very cool and helpful) i think went 10s with that cam and nitrous.. so it works.
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From: Texas
Here's a dynograph of reverse split cam with TSP LS6 heads. Man ya'll are just living in the past but it did put out good #'s. I think the ms3 does about 15 more hp and 5 more torque. 4 years ago everyone had several versions of r/s cams but they all died.https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....88&postcount=4
Last edited by Buford; Feb 9, 2007 at 12:44 PM.
Originally Posted by Buford
Here's a dynograph of reverse split cam with TSP LS6 heads. Man ya'll are just living in the past but it did put out good #'s. I think the ms3 does about 15 more hp and 5 more torque. 4 years ago everyone had several versions of r/s cams but they all died.https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....88&postcount=4
hey predator take a peek at this thread i started
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/654843-what-makes-cam-fall-off-after-peak.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/654843-what-makes-cam-fall-off-after-peak.html