1BLKSS

it's finally done. S2 and 224. the car ALREADY had MAC's, airlid, orp, and flowmaster catback. after all was complete, it only made 380 rwhp. what gets me is the base run only punched out 302 rwhp! before anything, 2 things remain significant. 1. i did not go w/SLP LT's 2. apparently, the flowmaster is restricting flow. truthfully, i was anticipating a HP figure somewhere closer to 400. when i think about the the MACs, i dont get it. if i was to gain pwr, why did the car only see 301 rwhp? presumably, if i did gain any pwr, that tells me that i would have likely punched out something less than 300 in stock configuration. my stock lifters still remain--apparently the comp R's i thought i was getting were for someone else. this detail was not learned until i picked up the car. i would have liked a call when that became an issue, in essence, giving me the option to stay stock or go w/a different brand. i had been assured that they did the same thing to some other guys car and no trouble has been reported so far. why is it that some just slap in a cam with no other mods and punch out what my H/C did? well, no more is in store here. i think a vette is in order. can you believe those new cobra's are running consistant mid 12s--all stock and not even trying?! LOL! '01 SS/M6 <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

CHRISPY

What did you get done tuning wise? What comp ratio etc? 80RWHP is fairly normal from heads and cam. The flomaster is definitely restricting you somewhat. I would keep the 3 inch intermediate pipe and weld in a dynomaxs Ultraflo 3 inch single in/single out muffler. Normally you should dyno around 340 before heads and cam with your mods, something isnt right... Are you six speed or A4?
thanks,
Chris

<small>[ May 29, 2002, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>

dan98z

An 80 rwhp gain is not that bad at all. I will be going with this same setup come August. I have FLP long tubes though so I hope to gain 5-10 more rwhp. Did you get the ported throttle body as well? That should be worth 4-5 more rwhp on the dyno. Also what springs did you go with? Al is pushing like a **** to get the MMS springs, but i think im going to switch back to the comp 918's. He keeps telling me the 918's wont take the lift of their 224 cam..says I will get serious valve float over 6200 rpm. Also said the people that have 918's last dont go over the stock rev limiter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Thats pretty weak that they didnt even call you to let you know about the lifters..I wouldn't have appreciated that. Still you made good power for the macs and flowmaster, flowmasters definatly restrict power. Get some track times. Congrats on the new setup! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
-dan

<small>[ May 29, 2002, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: dan98z ]</small>

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

If you post all your mods I can help you get more power out of it. Most guys with the 224v3.1 cam / stage 2 heads see 400-420rwhp depending on other mods and tranny type.

1BLKSS

TB,
Mods are MMS S2 heads, 224/114lsa cam, airlid, GMAF, MMS TB, MACs, orp, Flowmaster catback and MMS tuning. The car has an M6. Apparently a switch in headers and muffler will put it over the 420 mark. So the debate may focus on SLP LTs or Hookers and as far as muffler, Magnaflow? DynoMax? SpinTech? Borla?
I'll likely increase the I-pipe to 3.5 since I cannot run a true dual. Thanks for the replys. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I disagree.. Your headers are fine.. My car dyno'd what I have in the sig.. Stock heads.. You have something else wrong.

<small>[ May 30, 2002, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>

msce2b-dustin

fwiw....last year I ran a flowmaster muffler and with back to back to back testing on the same night a flowmaster was costing me between .15 and .20 in the 1/8 mile and around 2 mph over having the cutout open. This was on a near stock motor.

Not sure if I just had a bad muffler or what but it defilantly took away power. This might be something take a look at.

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

The first thing I'd do would be to do a dyno pull with the exhaust disconnected at the ypipe, that will tell you if the exhaust is a restriction or not. Also what was your AF ratio and timing on the tuning? Sometimes if the car has been sitting awhile the gas will go a bit bad and can effect how the engine reacts to timing.

jmX

The headers are definitly not your problem. I gained 0rwhp at peak going from macs to flp's. Like Terry said, drop your catback on the dyno and see what you are giving up through the crapmaster muffler.

1BLKSS

All the info I'd need to answer questions, i.e. A/F & timing were not supplied by MMS. I'd have to make an appt to dyno the car one more time without the catback. The clutch and flywheel are also stock so it doesnt leave much more to consider except for tuning--I suppose. I couldnt even get flow numbers for the heads, to run a sim on desktop dyno. I know it wouldnt be a completely accurate measure but I'd be curious to see what the program would predict. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Max@Cartek

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sometimes if the car has been sitting awhile the gas will go a bit bad and can effect how the engine reacts to timing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If this is the case, shouldn't the tuner have been aware of this. I mean your 20 to 40 hp off the norm, right. Or maybe that's all the setup has?

I think it's in the tuning. Probably just not right.

Max

FASST

1BLKSS,

Have you ever gotten the feeling that some people have just stopped trying?

If MMS is telling you that the low dyno numbers are due to the exhaust, headers, etc. I think you have a pretty good case to ask them to prove it. If no one is currently using their dyno, it doesn't cost them hardly anything to use the damn thing. From a customer service standpoint, I'd go over and ask them to strap it on the dyno. Make a few pulls with the exhaust connected, and a few without. If they value you as a customer, they shouldn't charge you for this time on their dyno. The cost to them will be exponentially outweighed by your later praise of their shop. I therefore don't think you'd be out of line asking them to make you happy. Especially after what you've spent at their shop.

I've luckily had great results from all of the shops that I've taken my car to. Whenever things went wrong, they were immediately corrected to my satisfaction. It's a shame that good customer service is getting hard to find.

Street Racer

iTrader: (65)

Maybe do a leak down test make sure all is in order. The Heads and cam package that I have only made like 380 RWHP on a buddys car I was reluctant to buy it but I did and on my car the same set up made almost 420 RWHP with 4.10's. He discovered he had two down cylinders after the leak down ...

99MONGOOSE

Personally I think some of the RWHP figures are just playing with numbers on the dynos. I mean come on most stage 2 H/C/I are getting 400-420RWHP on a M, then someone posts " Oh my god, I just dynoed 440RWHP with just a cam and lid!" We all no that there is no way someone with just a cam is going to out pull a Stage 2 ported head and cam car.

CHRISPY

I definitely think a good dynomax single in and single out Ultraflo 3 inch muffler will pick up at least 12-18RWHP over the Flomaster POS on there now. Keep the 3 inch intermediate pipe, and dont bother with duals. I dynoed 460RWHP through a full 3 inch exhaust with dynomax race magnum. A superstroker also dynoed over 500RWHP through the MAC headers. They are DEFINITELY not a restriction. Also the GMAF has been known to cause problems as well.
Finally after you switch the muffler and go back to a stock descreened MAF go back and redyno and retune the car.
Good luck, there is DEFINITELY 400+RWHP in the car.
Cheers,
Chris

Trojan T/A

iTrader: (1)

I understand why you are disappointed with your results, but you gained what all of the top H/C setups boast, 80 rwhp. The only difference is you started at 302 instead of 340 like most people with bolt ons. Either MMS's dyno is reading really low right now or you may have had a problem going into the new setup.

Chris

<small>[ May 30, 2002, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Trojan T/A ]</small>

Max@Cartek

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I've luckily had great results from all of the shops that I've taken my car to. Whenever things went wrong, they were immediately corrected to my satisfaction. It's a shame that good customer service is getting hard to find. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes it is.

Max@Cartek

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1BLKSS:
<strong>
TB,
Mods are MMS S2 heads, 224/114lsa cam, airlid, GMAF, MMS TB, MACs, orp, Flowmaster catback and MMS tuning. The car has an M6. Apparently a switch in headers and muffler will put it over the 420 mark. So the debate may focus on SLP LTs or Hookers and as far as muffler, Magnaflow? DynoMax? SpinTech? Borla?
I'll likely increase the I-pipe to 3.5 since I cannot run a true dual. Thanks for the replys.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It sounds like you have all the right stuff or close to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Did you ever get it to make close to 400? Most stage 2 H/C with the above bolt ons and M6 tranny make over 400 rwhp.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>If you post all your mods I can help you get more power out of it. Most guys with the 224v3.1 cam / stage 2 heads see 400-420rwhp depending on other mods and tranny type.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, lucky for him that it wasnt an A4 or it might have only dynoed at 365 rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Max@Cartek

BTW, check your springs!!! You may have a broken one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Bugblndr

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BTW, check your springs!!! You may have a broken one.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just what this board needs is another immature poster slamming other shops. At least the other posters here don't have relatives that own a shop.

Oh well, at the end of the day IMO its the shops reputation that goes to hell, not the board. I don't see MTI, ARE, MMS, or Thunder cutting up other tuners. Why must you? <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" />