key master

I'm just curious if the Mustang crowd is looking at the gains that we're getting out of the LS1 with just heads and cam and thinking if they made the wrong decision <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Or do Mustang heads and cam really make their horsepower jump too?

Just curious...
-Jim

<small>[ June 12, 2002, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: key master ]</small>

new-LS1

Are you talking about the 4.6 mustangs? or the ever so famous 5.0?

jmX

Stock LS1 = 300rwhp
LS1 with headers/heads/cam = 400rwhp

Stock 5.0 = 200rwhp
5.0 with headers/heads/cam/intake = 290-310rwhp

So, yeah.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

A friend of a friend has a 2000 GT and he had his heads and cam done with headers and he gained very little. He went from 270hp/260tq to 275hp/280tq. My buddy said that he got shafted by the place he went to, so I'm not certain if this is a good example.

P.S. Good seeing you around Jim. Long time no talk. I think there is a get together sometime soon at Tyler Park.

NastySSoo

Just had my new H/C set up dynoed at one of the top performance mustang shops in south fl. Ahead of me on the dyno was a built 331 ci mustang with trickflow heads , intake , and a lumpy cam and all the other good stuff. He dynoed 379 rwhp and 390 rwtq. They were high fiving each other til my H/C car produced 417rwhp, and 404 rwtq. They were impressed with the LS1.

Ebbsnflows

iTrader: (15)

I think JMX sum'd it up well and put it in a very good perspective.

For a "little" 302 to pick up 100 hp from Heads/cam/intake/Headers, just as the larger 346 LS1 does, is pretty impressive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

1blkZ

Im a partial mustng guy. Don't know much about the 5.0's but the 4.6's from 96-98 had notoriously poor flowing heads. That why they only made 210 horsepower. The 99-02 heads are much better thats why the new motors are making around 260. The 99-02 heads will bolt right up to 96-98 cars, and there's the 50 horsepower. Longtubes will get you about 20hp. Not many people have cams, but they're starting get more popular now that the aftermarket is coming around. Don't even get me started on the cobra heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

<small>[ June 12, 2002, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: 1blkZ ]</small>

key master

I guess I was referring to the newer Mustangs, but that's a good point: the 4.6's and 5.0's are completely different motors. I guess it now makes sense to me why superchargers are so popular for Mustangs since a head and cam package just doesn't sound real cost-effective. Good info.

The Alchemist: Hey! Next time you have a get-together at Tyler, let me know! I live like 5 minutes from the park <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

-Jim

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Hey Jim, its Brien....

I think people were going to try and have a get together next saturday the 22nd, but that's also f-bodies vs. mustangs at etown, so I'm not sure how many people will go.

Keep an eye on the eastern section.

TrahnZam WS6

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
<strong>Stock LS1 = 300rwhp
LS1 with headers/heads/cam = 400rwhp

Stock 5.0 = 200rwhp
5.0 with headers/heads/cam/intake = 290-310rwhp

So, yeah.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">400 rwhp is quite low for todays standards of HC LS1s (hell I broke that with my stock heads). With the new cam profiles, LS6 intake and better head porting, 420-440 rwhp is a better estimate for a properly tuned highend setup IMO.

TrahnZam WS6

Oh yeah, and no 5.0 stands to gain 50+ rwhp from a cam swap with stock heads. Gotta love the LS1 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

jmX

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by TrahnZam WS6:
400 rwhp is quite low for todays standards of HC LS1s (hell I broke that with my stock heads). With the new cam profiles, LS6 intake and better head porting, 420-440 rwhp is a better estimate for a properly tuned highend setup IMO.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm making broad generalizations, and besides, there are many other LS1's making 370-390rwhp with heads and cam that nobody ever hears about. I'm taking a value in the middle.

The same goes for mustangs. There are heads/cam'd 5.0s that dyno 270, and some that dyno 380.

Saying all heads/cam ls1's these days make 420-440rwhp is just flat out incorrect. All the ones you hear about ON HERE are, yes...because those people like talking about the results.

-Ross-

iTrader: (2)

You guys can't forget about cost here.

LS1 Stage II heads - $2500
LS1 Cam Kit - $800

5.0 Aluminum heads - $1000
5.0 Cam Kit - $250

Your basic heads/cam/intake mustang will dyno around 280 RWHP. With extensive head work, and a custom cam you're probably looking at 340 RWHP.

BTW - RWHP doesn't mean crap when it comes down to 1/4 mile racing.

A 300 RWHP 5.0 fox body can easily run very low 12's if not some high 11's.

Ross

HP-GURU

Looking at the efficiency differences:

Stock 5.0 190rwhp LS1 310rwhp
Head/cam 5.0 290-330rwhp Head cam LS1 400-440
size 302 ci 346ci

.96-1.09 rwhp/ci 1.15-1.27rwhp/ci

The LS1 combo's are alot more efficient approx
15% more...

blackdeath97

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by key master:
<strong>I'm just curious if the Mustang crowd is looking at the gains that we're getting out of the LS1 with just heads and cam and thinking if they made the wrong decision <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Or do Mustang heads and cam really make their horsepower jump too?

Just curious...
-Jim</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have unported 99 PI heads, 99 intake, and Crane regrinds on my 97 GTS and I do quite a bit of street racing (spare me the lecture). It is extremely rare for me to lose to an LT1. As far as LS1 F-bods, I beat about 90% of them. Some of them are stock, some modded. This is a fact. Sorry, no RWHP numbers or 1/4 mi. times. Believe what you will, but this is the truth. As far as 5.0 Cobras; I have beaten EVERY one of them that was not blown since I did my heads, cams, and intake. See ya on the street.......

NastySSoo

Street racing means NOTHING! Bring it to the track and let us know what it runs.

Kenny H

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Alchemist:
[QB]A friend of a friend has a 2000 GT and he had his heads and cam done with headers and he gained very little. He went from 270hp/260tq to 275hp/280tq. My buddy said that he got shafted by the place he went to, so I'm not certain if this is a good example.

Wait a second. Are we talking flywheel or rear wheel numbers here?

Kenny H

"[QUOTE]Originally posted by ross87t:
[QB]You guys can't forget about cost here.

LS1 Stage II heads - $2500
LS1 Cam Kit - $800

5.0 Aluminum heads - $1000
5.0 Cam Kit - $250"

What aluminum heads are you getting for $1000? $2500 will get you a great set of LS1 heads. What will $1000 get you? GT40 aluminums? AFR? TFS? I'm just curious....

"Your basic heads/cam/intake mustang will dyno around 280 RWHP. With extensive head work, and a custom cam you're probably looking at 340 RWHP."

Agreed

I think my ~ 355 rear wheel horsepower (auto, stock heads/intake) is much more streetable then ~340 N/A rearwheel horsepower from a Mustang. My car idles well, very drivable in all conditions, with my cut-out capped it could pass as a stock car.


"BTW - RWHP doesn't mean crap when it comes down to 1/4 mile racing."

"A 300 RWHP 5.0 fox body can easily run very low 12's if not some high 11's"

Agreed again. My friend's '92 GT had 285 and ran 12.7 in a 100% full weight GT. If he would have ran 4.10s, taken the spare/jack and back seat out, yanked the front sway bar and ran with 1/8th tank of gas, went with Welds all around, he could have run 12.2s or so. Thats in a GT. Throw 15 more horsepower at a notchback and 11 second timeslips await....

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Kenny, I'm not sure the full details. I was just talking to a friend and he was telling me about his friend that had work done on his 2000GT and how unhappy he was. Those were the numbers he quoted to me, but he might have been mistaken. Like I said, its second hand info, and it might be an isolated situation as well.

roger

100rwhp isnt real doable for JUST heads cam and intake,there are to many other restrictions like maf,tb,exhaust,inlet pipe,and so on.

you cant realy compare ls1 cars to 5.0's there is to much of a technoligy jump between them.the ls1 head is more like one of the ford race heads and much better than most of the aluminum street heads,and they are up on them another 50ci.