Iam interested in building my own C5R engine in my garage. I plan on boosting it with my current D1SC blower. I was thinking of going with the stock c5R block (4.125 Bore). But iam not sure what engine components to use. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I was thinking The lunati 4340 crankshaft. Not sure 4.000 or 4.125 stroke?

Lunati connecting rods but Iam also not sure what size 6.000 or 6.125?

I want to use pistons that will be able to withstand the boost. Any suggestions and where to buy them?

Iam debating b/w the hydraulic roller or sollid roller camshaft? I was leaning more toward the hydraulic roller but with the T&D shaft Mounted rockerarms. Any sugestions? My horspower goals with boost should be around 850-950rwhp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Any other suggestions on what I should use or need would be very helpfull. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

 

I'd build the 441. 4.125 bore with 4.125 stroke. Definitely go with the longest rod you can fit in that package. I'd go with JE or Ross blower pistons. You can give Thunder Racing a call for any of these parts. With the blower, you won't need to spin the crap out of it so stick with hyd. roller setup for ease of maintenance and dependability. The T&D's are a great choice. I went with them in my solid roller setup.

Shane

<small>[ June 18, 2002, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: XtraCajunSS ]</small>

 

Here is some good reading for you then!!! I was one of his good customers when he was here in Lubbock, Tx... This car should really fly!! and it is the exact setup your looking at!! Give him a call.... His name is Nate..

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=302207

 

I think it's easy to go a little crazy with the stroke.

If I were you I would pair up with a performance company like ARE to figure out the combo.

You need to think about how fast you want to go, which will affect the compression ratio among other things.

You will eventually need to upgrade the blower since the blower will become the restriction in a bigger stroker setup.

 

skip the blower.

C5-R blocks come as 4.120" as far as i know, but i could be wrong there. anyway. take that and add a 4" crank, 6.125" rods, good NA pistons (and by that i mean inverted dome pistons...more on that later), and all that ARP stuff.

now the fun stuff. call MTI or somebody and have them build out a pair of C5-R heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> . shouldnt be too damn hard to make em flow REAL well. now im not talking titainum valves and all that poop. just good solid flow and reliability. add the S/S jesel's (non-adj.) and a good hyd. cam (MTI is probably best suited for that app...but id say something like the S1 at 244/244 and whatever lsa you want). then the hard part. find someone to build you a sheet metal intake. and not that ls spyder crap...a real built-for-you intake. then throw on some headers and other bolt-ons and go looking for built vipers and all that crap.

between the tuning and fuel of a blower car (not to mention the blower) you could just spend the 10k for the heads and cam.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ryan:
[QB]skip the blower.

C5-R blocks come as 4.120" as far as i know, but i could be wrong there. anyway. take that and add a 4" crank, 6.125" rods, good NA pistons (and by that i mean inverted dome pistons...more on that later), and all that ARP stuff.

now the fun stuff. call MTI or somebody and have them build out a pair of C5-R heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> . shouldnt be too damn hard to make em flow REAL well. now im not talking titainum valves and all that poop. just good solid flow and reliability. add the S/S jesel's (non-adj.) and a good hyd. cam (MTI is probably best suited for that app...but id say something like the S1 at 244/244 and whatever lsa you want). then the hard part. find someone to build you a sheet metal intake. and not that ls spyder crap...a real built-for-you intake. then throw on some headers and other bolt-ons and go looking for built vipers and all that crap.

between the tuning and fuel of a blower car (not to mention the blower) you could just spend the 10k for the heads and cam
_________________________________________________

What you described is what I want. How much N/A RWHP/RWTQ do you think would be possible?

 

oh man...who knows.

with 427 cubes (assuming you stay with 4.120/4.000), 12:1 c/r, 360+cfm heads (not hard at all), and the S1? with a good tune and fuel system (a racetronix intank and 42lb-ers would be nice) plus all the normal boltons (step headers, etc). i could see 525rwhp/525rwtq without TOO much effort. thats probably really conservative too.

Just so you know Col. puts down an estimated 530rw with his 422 (S1, LS6 heads, Jesel, LS6 intake, etc) and he runs 9.8x

 

With my current settup of heads, Cam, and 8-9# Iam getting close to 560rwhp. So just getting c5R heads will not put a <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> on my face. It will be more reliable than my current setup but Iam looking for more power. My plan is to increase my power and increase reliability. Right now I have a stock bottom end. And since Iam pushing that much power Iam afraid the bottom end is going to quit on me soon.

So far Iam planning on a 441cid setup. the C5R has a bore of 4.125. If I accompany this with a 4.125 Crank and 6.125 connecting rods I will be at 441cid.
But can the C5R block be built with a 4.125 crank and if it can will it be safe to boost with a 4.125 crank.?

The D1SC blower is rated for upto 950rwhp. My realistic target with this setup is about 850rwhp. So the D1SC blower should hold up. If not I will just lower my boost until I can get a bigger blower.

The part Iam having trouble with is choosing my pistons. I have not been able to find a piston that is made for boost that will support the above setup 4.125 bore, 4.125 crank, and 6.125 connecting rods. Any suggestions? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

 

I was able to find out that the C5R block can support the 4.125 crank bit the block would require notching.

So for reliability issues Iam going to go with the lunati 4.000 crank. The rods is still a toss up b/w the 6.000 or the 6.125. The pistons will be the determining factor. Since Iam going to be boosting I think Iam going to go with the 6.000 rod and getting a thicker piston head.

But I still havent found a piston for boosted application for this engine.

Someone please help me find these pistons!!!
Any suggestions would be helpful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

BLMONGOOSE,
Maybe you could contact LPE and see what type of pistons they use in their TT 427 packages.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/pac725ttls1y.asp

http://www.lingenfelter.com/pac427cidls1f.asp

<small>[ June 19, 2002, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Fulton 1 ]</small>

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BLMONGOOSE:
<strong>I was able to find out that the C5R block can support the 4.125 crank bit the block would require notching.

So for reliability issues Iam going to go with the lunati 4.000 crank. The rods is still a toss up b/w the 6.000 or the 6.125. The pistons will be the determining factor. Since Iam going to be boosting I think Iam going to go with the 6.000 rod and getting a thicker piston head.

But I still havent found a piston for boosted application for this engine.

Someone please help me find these pistons!!!
Any suggestions would be helpful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would go with the 6.125" rods anyway. You can get the Lunati crank with the 4.0" stroke and get a set of custom JE's or Ross'. There is a custom piston order form you fill out in order to get the correct pin height. You can get a set of pistons that are plenty strong for this application. Give Geoff at Thunder Racing a call. He just built an engine with custom JE pistons and is about to build one with Diamond Racing pistons. He could definitely give you more specific info.

Shane

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ryan:
Just so you know Col. puts down an estimated 530rw with his 422 (S1, LS6 heads, Jesel, LS6 intake, etc) and he runs 9.8x
_________________________________________________

I have an ARE 436 in the mail being sent to me this week (crossing fingers and knocking on wood), Nick told me to expect about 450-470 RWHP/ 450-470 RWTQ N/A. I spoke with him about cams and we chose a very mild one ( I think 237/237) because I don't want my car shaking all over the place. So, how can Colonel have so much more HP? Can it just be a cam? How much HP would my 436 put out if I went with the most radical hyd. cam available?

Just wondering.

My edit: I plan on another project in a couple months. The C5R thing may be the way to go. Plain and simply, how much N/A HP can be had from a built C5R using whatever custom parts available and still use pump gas and be a daily driver?

Thanks

<small>[ June 19, 2002, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Quickin ]</small>

 

its all in the heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> and the cam of course.

remember Nine Ball's flow numbers that he posted...Stephen's flow at or better than those. He has a good tune, and 1 7/8" headers and no exhaust.

plus your ARE motor is probably torque biased with the undersquare build. but thats just a guess.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ryan:
plus your ARE motor is probably torque biased with the undersquare build. but thats just a guess
_________________________________________________

Da'hell is torque biased and undersquare build?

What could my motors' max HP be if I went with the biggest cam? I have an A4.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Da'hell is torque biased and undersquare build?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">undersquare = 4.125" bore x 4.0" crank.
square = 4" bore x 4" crank.

Ryan was making the point that since the motor was undersquare, it'd probably be aimed at torque production. ;D

P.S. it's a lil known secret that lunati is is making a 4.25" crank as well.. im probably going to try and stuff one into a hogged out 6.0 iron block and do a 440+ci.
<img border="0" alt="[Camaro]" title="" src="graemlins/camaro.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Vents:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Da'hell is torque biased and undersquare build?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">undersquare = 4.125" bore x 4.0" crank.
square = 4" bore x 4" crank.

Ryan was making the point that since the motor was undersquare, it'd probably be aimed at torque production. ;D

P.S. it's a lil known secret that lunati is is making a 4.25" crank as well.. im probably going to try and stuff one into a hogged out 6.0 iron block and do a 440+ci.
<img border="0" alt="[Camaro]" title="" src="graemlins/camaro.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FWIW, when the bore is larger than the stroke it is considered oversquare. Undersquare would be the opposite. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Shane

 

What about a custom piston with a 30cc bowl or thereabouts, get it down to 7:1 c/r, stick to 6500 maybe 7000 rpm redline, standard lifters, custom low overlap or zero overlap hydraulic cam and 1.8 rockers from Yella Terra. That's what I'm on with and it's gotta be mean and reliable like that even in a Z06 block. Oh don't forget the ringpack choice. Mike.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Vents:
[QB][QUOTE]Da'hell is torque biased and undersquare build?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">undersquare = 4.125" bore x 4.0" crank.
square = 4" bore x 4" crank.

Ryan was making the point that since the motor was undersquare, it'd probably be aimed at torque production. ;D
_________________________________________________

Gotcha, thanks.

 

I want to use pistons that will be able to withstand the boost. Any suggestions and where to buy them?

We're using Diamond pistons in our ATI F2SC C5R Build. This C5R block is topped with the latest version of C5R heads, custom sheet metal intake and Accel Gen 7 fuel management. Diamond can be reached at: 877-552-2112

<small>[ June 19, 2002, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: No1uNo ]</small>

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by XtraCajunSS:
<strong> FWIW, when the bore is larger than the stroke it is considered oversquare. Undersquare would be the opposite. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Shane</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">that what i was trying to say.

your 436 is most likely a 4.1 bore and 4.125" stroke. that is slightly undersquare. MattG i believe has a similar motor (not sure what cam) and small 1 5/8" headers. He make monster tq everywhere and peaks at like 6000-6100. Colonel's 422 is oversquare 4.1 x 4". with the larger cam and big headers (along with NICE heads) he is more HP biased (keep in mind these are very relative terms and are only of good use im my own head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ). but with say 530 hp and 480 tq he would go faster than say 480/480 or perhaps even 500/500 since he maximizes the time that he is at or just below that peak (i.e. tq converter and gearing). MattG has an M6 i think and looks to road race. tq is his friend untill he tries to power out of a turn and he taillights pass him on the right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> . may be time for some 2.73's?? anywho im way off track. basically, as shown in LS1 history undersquare (more stroke than bore) motors are more torquey than their counterparts and usually do not do as well at the track (jury's out here, but NA at least).