RyanJ

****...i tried to post a good long post...but my comp. skills have failed me. anyway...yeah, i think a bad *** 382/393 (bas *** as in same $ amount as a 434 with the same heads...like a SR393LS6 vs. a hyd434ls6) would make close to the same HP as the 434, but the HP would not be as broad and the TQ wouldnt be there i dont think. Not a big deal for me when i think about how a SR sounds <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> . plus you could tailor your cam to your needs. you may want to think about a sheet metal intake for the 393 though.

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

I spent all my racing time between 6000-7000rpm. For me a stroker is a waste. For guys that spend a lot of time racing ~3000-4000rpm, it would be worthwhile. Also all else being equal the more cubes the more potential. IE a solid 427 will make more than a similar solid 388.

Damian

iTrader: (89)

I think a properly set up 382/393 solid roller could easily make 500+ rwhp. Thats what the 422's are making. But those are peak #'s. Under the curve, I think the extra cubic inches will outrun the solid roller 3xx from stoplight to stoplight...But then again who really knows until something like this is done? How many solid roller 382/393's are there?

Josh

Toxic Texan

What about a solid 434 C5R??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

RyanJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Toxic Texan:
<strong>What about a solid 434 C5R??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Coming soon!

Damian makes a good point about power under the curve, but as an auto guy...i think Terry makes a good counter point. With a peaky auto car...you are likely to beat an "area under the curve" M6. As in a torquey 422 or 436 or whatever vs. a bad to the bone SR393. 422 being an M6 and the 393 being an auto. Ill take the auto at the track. but not everyone hits the track every weekend either.

now back on track... All else being equal (intake, heads, boltons, tuning, etc.) a solid roller stroker will make more power at the same RPM than a comparable all-bore. Now, SR all-bore vs. hyd. stroker would be close...but we get right back on the peak vs. area under the curve.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

With hydraulic cammed all-bore 382ci setups like AJH's making 480 rwhp with a 232/237 cam, 500 rwhp would be no problem with a solid roller setup. I know that the SAM 385ci solid roller made 500 rwhp when Judson first ran 10.8s with it. That was almost 2 years ago.

Tony

RyanJ

wanna talk ultimate setup? a long rod, lightweight piston 393 with a forged stock stroke crank. Ported C5R heads (450cfm anyone?), Sheet-Metal Intake, HUGE solid roller (think 260 duration at the least), etc. etc. etc.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

That still brings me to cost effective.. Will it be cost effective to go for the extra cubes or do a 382 or 393 solid roller? Also take in mind we have different types of drivers.. You have those that like to race every now and then and those who flat out go to the track weekend after weekend. Oh yeah, and those that like knowing they have a car that can run crazy times, but will never run the car. Tony do you have any dyno runs of the 393ci cars compared to say yours? Also, can someone estimate how much rwhp/rwtq will a properly setup solid roller 382 or 393ci would produce over the hyd 382 or 393ci setup.. Another reason I was wondering is because Cartek is producing some crazy #'s right now out of a 346ci. If they can duplicate those #'s over and over again in a 346ci Hyd roller I wonder what they would get with a solid roller setup out of the same engine..? I would think another 30rwhp. If so that would put that car at around 480rwhp out of a 346ci. That would leave me to believe that a properly setup solid roller 382 or 393ci could easily see north of 500rwhp. You have to admit the ls1 is still untapped territory.. I personally believe that within the next 4 years someone will hit 600rwhp in a all bore or a stroker 400ci plus..

RyanJ

I think we will see 600rwhp NA from a shop before the end of the year. That may be stretching it though.

SR is worth like 30-50rw peak? Tony would know best.

Do a search for Tony's dyno results and SW's 393 dyno that Tony posted. both in this section.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Chris Endres' old ARE 393ci solid roller went 10.71@128mph last year at the NFRA race and weighed in at 3450 lbs with driver.

I think a solid roller big bore can do very well.

From a cost standpoint, I think it might be a wash. The big cube hyd setup might be a bit more on paper but I'm not sure when you factor in all the machining for both that the big bore solid roller is just a wee bit less.

CHRISPY

I think a hyd cammed 393 making 480RWHP will be more then enough to make most people either **** their pants or kill themselves <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Personally, I would go for a nice balanced street setup with good reliability. 450RWHP And 450RWTQ with peaks around 6500rpm would be ideal for me and a ton of fun on the street.
Even an LS1 headed 382-393 with Hyd roller should hit those numbers no problem in a six speed.

A mild 230/230 114LSA cam and LS6 intake with headers and quiet catback with LS1 edit tuning... You would have a ton of fun and destroy almost everything on the road.

Just my opinion of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Okay, I worked some Photoshop magic just for you guys to compare cubes with. Here are three MTI dynos I had, I scaled them as close as possible and overlaid them on top of eachother.

Stage 2 LS6 346ci with X1 cam - "Poolfanatic"
Stage 3 LS6 382ci all-bore with R1 cam - "AJH"
Stage 3 LS6 434ci stroker with S1 cam - "NineBall"

All three cars are 6-speeds, mine is the only one with an aftermarket drivetrain though, the other two have stock rearends, otherwise I'd REALLY have some excellent dyno-racer status here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

CUBES rule. No doubt about it.

<img src="https://ls1tech.com/dynojet/346vs382vs434.gif" alt=" - " />

The 393ci all-bore is very similar to the 382ci one posted above. It was in SW's vette, so the drivetrain is a bit different.

Tony

<small>[ July 08, 2002, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Nine Ball ]</small>

RyanJ

thanks tony. is MTI consistent or what?!? anyway, i think a nicely sized solid roller on AJH's car would let it peak near your's Tony...but the torque wouldnt be there for sure.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

You are correct, the dyno curve on a solid roller setup would just continue to climb past that peak HP we seem to fall off at, perhaps peaking around 7400-7500 rpm. The midrange torque was also be less most likely.

BIG motors are alot more fun to drive around on a daily basis. My 382ci was much more fun than my heads/cam. An all-bore with a smaller cam (450 rwhp or so) would be the perfect daily-driver in my opinion. I loved the 382/T1 setup I used to have for its stealth factor and drivability. Idled and sounded like stock, and ran 11.19 @ 125 in a full weight car.

This 434ci is just downright insane to drive daily. Definitely overkill on power/torque for daily driving, especially since you can't use this much power at WOT until 3rd gear happens LOL

Tony

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Very interesting information Tony.. So you are saying solid rollers lack on tq? Its not going to be like 515rwhp/430rwtq is it for a 393ci Solid Roller?

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

SW's 422ci solid-roller setup:

<img src="http://users.ev1.net/~ynot_dv8/422SWdyno.jpg" alt=" - " />

Where's the torque? LOL

RyanJ

i remember that graph. yeah...tq is really low, but say i had a TP4600 or 4800...id shift at 7500 and probably never see below 6800 or so...who needs torque <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sears

Vince, you've been reading my mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Justin

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Justin we think alike.. Actually this post is for a friend. I am going forced induction.. I do not want to lose the investment I already have on this shortblock.

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jsears8:
<strong>Vince, you've been reading my mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Justin</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />