grb

This is why I love this place. Nowadays you could never get info like this at LS1.com.
I still don't see much if any advantage with the C5R heads. Unless they have bigger intakes or an improved chamber design sounds like a PITA piece of window dressing.

Turbos? If I were going to stray from the ZL1 concept I would just build a 502 or huge mountain motor.

Sounds like stage III LS6 heads are the way to go or am I missing something?

<small>[ July 02, 2002, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: grb ]</small>

RyanJ

i would go for the LS6 heads, but the C5R's are fairly significant. with some chamber work and the right pistons. the usual valves are like titanium 2.125/1.65? or something. cant remember. I saw some work by that guy you were talking about. it was a 427 with a direct port. everything polished. non-c5r heads. looked nice.

Speed Inc. (sponsor -->) has a sheetmetal intake on their site. im sure they, or just about any other big shop like that could fab something or have it fabbed by Hogan or something.

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryan:
<strong>Speed Inc. (sponsor -->) has a sheetmetal intake on their site. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmmm..... All I could find on their site was the Holley/Lingenfelter intake. I dropped them a line, so hopefully they will get back with me.

RyanJ

go to the engine section. its there.

grb

You know, part of the enjoyment of this car will be popping the hood and seeing a real engine. Knowing there are 427 ci in there is icing on the cake!

z0sense

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by grb:
<strong>This is why I love this place. Nowadays you could never get info like this at LS1.com.
I still don't see much if any advantage with the C5R heads. Unless they have bigger intakes or an improved chamber design sounds like a PITA piece of window dressing.

Turbos? If I were going to stray from the ZL1 concept I would just build a 502 or huge mountain motor.

Sounds like stage III LS6 heads are the way to go or am I missing something?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dont forget you don't necessarily want big intake ports. You want maximum flow through the smallest port. That way you will have a nice velocity of air flowing through the port. (atleast in your case)

In the case of the C5R head, the most significant difference is the angle of the valve. It changed from 15* to 11* this alone will increase flow. Not to mention because of the raised floor and roof of the intake port, and improved port design......this will increase velocity. These heads have a lot more capability of flowing, and doing all this with a better velocity. Simply.....they will make more power!

grb

Are we talking 5-10 hp here, or more?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

With proper cam and intake selection, the C5R heads are a minimum of 100 hp better than the LS6 heads, but keep in mind, you'll need to run a lot more rpm to best use the added airflow benefits.

Ported LS6 heads flow around 300-320 cfm at .600 lift.

Ported C5R heads flow around 420-450 cfm at .600 lift. Do the math and you will see that the C5R heads have the potential to be closer to 200 hp better than LS6 heads, but most drivers would not want their street machines to be built this extreme. That said, the C5R heads are a solid 100 hp better than LS6 heads...easy!

grb

If the C5R heads are good for 100hp and remain streetable...in they go! Lamar will be back in town next week and I will run all these ideas by him.

Also, I'm thinking about putting the LS6 ZL-1 motor in my 02, SS, 1LE A4 and changing out the torque conveter while we're at it. That will leave me with an LS1 motor (rear end and clutch too) to sell rather than an LS6. I'm thinking the LS6 and converter would really liven up the SS. Any thoughts on that?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

LS6 engine and a Yank Super Thruster 3500 converter would rock the house! Very streetable, but a huge increase over stock. A Vig 3200 would be another good choice for converters.

Vengeance Racing

You are a fool and you do not know what the hell you are doing. You are (for a fact) going to ruin this car. I have a Race Case 427 and this motor is not something you just put in GMMG ZL1. Your car will be worthless when it is done and more than likely it will be slow too. I will enjoy laughing at your motor and beating your azz at the track.

grb

Ouch!!

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

grb - Do what you want to your car. Don't worry about what other people say. The fact is that these cars are bad investments, special edition or not. <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />

If you want to put in a C5R motor do it. It'll be bad a$$. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Properly built it should easily put down 600rwhp. That's much more impressive than spraying or boosting to that power level. IMO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

It's all about fun, some people just don't understand. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

John <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Will Race 4 Food

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Evilz28nos:
<strong>You are a fool and you do not know what the hell you are doing. You are (for a fact) going to ruin this car. I have a Race Case 427 and this motor is not something you just put in GMMG ZL1. Your car will be worthless when it is done and more than likely it will be slow too. I will enjoy laughing at your motor and beating your azz at the track.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just what is a 'race case 427'?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
C5R engine built properly by someone who knows what he's doing = slow? I doonn't think so.
grb, just go ahead and do it, don't worry about others, as John said. Cheers <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

grb

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....let's think for just a second. Here we have a dude who is willing to spend the equivalent of an M5 and an M3 (or more) on a Camaro. We are not talking about a normal, run of the mill person here are we? Let me say it again...a Camaro!! I love 'em. I've got and 02 Z06 too. Corvette lovers don't understand...I like my SS Camaro bettter. So shoot me.

OK, I'll come clean. Just a few years ago I was shopping for a McLaren. It was only when I found out that they weren't made any more that I focused on something else that would satisfy my needs. So spending $100k or more on a Camaro is no big deal. I'm still half a million (or more) up! I want a car that is fun to me. What anybody else thinks doesn't matter. If I wanted to impress people in my neighborhood it would take a McLaren or more.

To me a car that doesn't have to be running to be a "Picasso". Popping the hood on some cars is an absolute thrill. Some cars are a work of art! If you don't know what I'm talking about this doesn't make sense to you.

What I'm looking for here is for you guys to help me build one bad *** Camaro that will not only be the last of the breed but will also have a link to one of the greatest Camaros ever built.

We have at our desposal one of the greatest Chevy engine builders on earth (who just happened to have owned the #51 1969 ZL1 Camaro) and a dude (me) that wants a Camaro (ZL1 #51) that will defend the heritage of a brand that some of us love.

This car will be well documented. Your input will be apppreciated and appropriately noted. (more about that later)

2000LS1

This thread just keeps getting better and better. 427 ZL1 Camaro!!!! Rock on!!! Good luck with your project and don't forget to take lots of pics for us!!!

TanRchy

this is too sweet. KEEP GOING! screw what haters say. this thread rocks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

Nickn20

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by XLR8NSS:
<strong>grb - Do what you want to your car. Don't worry about what other people say. The fact is that these cars are bad investments, special edition or not. <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />

If you want to put in a C5R motor do it. It'll be bad a$$. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Properly built it should easily put down 600rwhp. That's much more impressive than spraying or boosting to that power level. IMO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

It's all about fun, some people just don't understand. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

John <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">not on pump gas...... a turbo setup with 10 psi 800 rwhp on pump gas....... get a little nutty run some high octane fuel, bump the boost up and timing, well lets just saying, I hope you have a really good fuel system to support 1000+ rwhp. its all about what you want to do..... I'd rather have forced induction myself..... shoot with a LS6 headed forged 346 with a healthy turbo cam, I think 600 rwhp is quite possible on pump gas....(94 octane) those fortunate enough to get the good stuff <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Originally posted by Nickn20:
not on pump gas...... a turbo setup with 10 psi 800 rwhp on pump gas....... get a little nutty run some high octane fuel, bump the boost up and timing, well lets just saying, I hope you have a really good fuel system to support 1000+ rwhp. its all about what you want to do..... I'd rather have forced induction myself..... shoot with a LS6 headed forged 346 with a healthy turbo cam, I think 600 rwhp is quite possible on pump gas....(94 octane) those fortunate enough to get the good stuff <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree that the potential of a forced induction setup definately exceeds that of a N/A motor but, why don't you think 600rwhp is possible outta a C5R motor on pump gas.

There are hydraulic cammed 422+ci motors right now making over 500rwhp with LS6 heads. The C5R heads have the potential to flow 20-30% more air from what I've heard. That plus a nice healthy solid roller cam, 11.5:1 cr, necessary new intake, 94 octane, and a 8000rpm redline. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> I don't see what the problem is with 600rwhp+/- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> . <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

John

restoman45

iTrader: (2)

you are building my dream motor...good luck, and let the thing scream!!!