Starting with C5R block....
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... It isnt realistic to compare C5R heads to fully finished Ls6 heads.
The C5R heads are BARE and need a TON of port work vs the Ls6 heads ready to bolt in from ARE MTI etc.
I have seen them first hand and they are awesome looking but need a lot of work.
I would go C5R heads fully ported run about 12:1 compression a BIG solid cam with appropiate valvetrain and a custom intake.
1 7/8 headers with 3.5 inch merge collectors dual oval 3.5 inch tubing with Xpipe and then finish with either true dual or merge to 4 inch exhaust with stainless Xr1 muffler(s).
Good fuel system and decent injector and you are all set.
Very expensive but as you said money is no option.
Good luck with it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
The C5R heads are BARE and need a TON of port work vs the Ls6 heads ready to bolt in from ARE MTI etc.
I have seen them first hand and they are awesome looking but need a lot of work.
I would go C5R heads fully ported run about 12:1 compression a BIG solid cam with appropiate valvetrain and a custom intake.
1 7/8 headers with 3.5 inch merge collectors dual oval 3.5 inch tubing with Xpipe and then finish with either true dual or merge to 4 inch exhaust with stainless Xr1 muffler(s).
Good fuel system and decent injector and you are all set.
Very expensive but as you said money is no option.
Good luck with it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Atlanta
Re: Starting with C5R block.... Money is no object for MORE RELIABLE hp. To spend an extra $4-5K for little or no gain would be foolish. If the power is there I will go with the C5R heads whether they are built by Walden, Katech or MTI. What I'm looking for here is good, reliable info.
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3
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From: Columbia, SC
Re: Starting with C5R block.... If cost is no object, I'd contract Arao to make a one off 4 valve for the LS1. Wouldn't it have a lot more low end power and just as much top end (or more) than the C5Rs? That would be cool.
Re: Starting with C5R block.... 4 valve LS1's now there is a thought! I am sure that would take some work of an extreme caliber. Not to mention engineering..........wow! Parts for something like this would be $$$$$$ and know knows of their reliability so it wouldn't be good for this project. Maybe someone else's though.
If I were to have someone do my work and I didn't already have someone...then Katech would be my choice. If I am not mistaken (as mentioned in earlier post), they are the ones that do a lot of work on the C5R motors.
Compression is an issue, however anyone can rework a chamber to be any compression you want. A set of LS6 heads can have reduced chambers for that matter. Most people will "weld" in the chamber and make their own anyways. So chambers on the heads should not be an issue. See if someone can make it larger around 60CC or so, just a little more compression then the LS6 heads, but a lot more flow.
If I were to have someone do my work and I didn't already have someone...then Katech would be my choice. If I am not mistaken (as mentioned in earlier post), they are the ones that do a lot of work on the C5R motors.
Compression is an issue, however anyone can rework a chamber to be any compression you want. A set of LS6 heads can have reduced chambers for that matter. Most people will "weld" in the chamber and make their own anyways. So chambers on the heads should not be an issue. See if someone can make it larger around 60CC or so, just a little more compression then the LS6 heads, but a lot more flow.
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 35
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From: California
Re: Starting with C5R block.... It sounds like the C5R heads are the way to go as long as you can get an intake. I doubt Lamar has ever built a set. Do you know who we could get to build them if he can't?
Our 98 SS Camaro project is being built around a C5R block that is topped with C5R 090 series heads. We purchased the block, dry sump, Modex billet crank, Carrillo Rods, Diamond pistons, heads and complete Jesel solid roller valve train from KATECH, call Chris at 586-791-4120 for pricing and availability. This car is supercharged with an ATI F2SC that utilizes air/water intercooling. We are currently using 96lb injectors, which are controlled via an Accel Gen.7 fuel management system. The fuel is being delivered through two Aeromotive pro-series fuel pumps. The car is going to the paint shop next week then to the tuner to have the engine, transmission and supercharger installed. Hopefully, the car will be ready in three months, I will post pictures and specification along with ¼ mile times when the project is completed. Anyway, as you can see, I totally agree the C5R is the way to go. Good luck with your project.
Our 98 SS Camaro project is being built around a C5R block that is topped with C5R 090 series heads. We purchased the block, dry sump, Modex billet crank, Carrillo Rods, Diamond pistons, heads and complete Jesel solid roller valve train from KATECH, call Chris at 586-791-4120 for pricing and availability. This car is supercharged with an ATI F2SC that utilizes air/water intercooling. We are currently using 96lb injectors, which are controlled via an Accel Gen.7 fuel management system. The fuel is being delivered through two Aeromotive pro-series fuel pumps. The car is going to the paint shop next week then to the tuner to have the engine, transmission and supercharger installed. Hopefully, the car will be ready in three months, I will post pictures and specification along with ¼ mile times when the project is completed. Anyway, as you can see, I totally agree the C5R is the way to go. Good luck with your project.
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Starting with C5R block.... why do people always go overboard with bad *** motors and put blower's on em and stuff. its not like you'll ever be able to see a fraction of useable power within the confines of the street, or at the track. the only person with a nice 427C5R is a lingenfelter customer with 30" slicks. he runs 9's NA. another guy will likely run 8's NA if he goes all out with C5R heads and all that. I like ya'll ideas, and it seems really cool, but i have more repect for a car that puts all its power to the ground rather than catches a few more pieces of *** around town with a whistle under the hood and bling bling wheels. sorry if that came off harsh...i just wanted to vent. good luck on the set ups.
Katech has TONS of C5R parts and info. MTI is the place that I would have build/spec it for you.
Katech has TONS of C5R parts and info. MTI is the place that I would have build/spec it for you.
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TECH Regular
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 470
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From: Plano, Tx.
Re: Starting with C5R block.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by grb:
<strong>
Any exhaust ideas? I don't particularly like the GMMG chambered exhaust sound.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why is that? Is it too loud,too quiet, too much rumble? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
I'm just curious what type of exhaust you are looking for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<strong>
Any exhaust ideas? I don't particularly like the GMMG chambered exhaust sound.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why is that? Is it too loud,too quiet, too much rumble? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
I'm just curious what type of exhaust you are looking for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
TECH Regular
Joined: May 2002
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From: Lubbock
Re: Starting with C5R block.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by grb:
<strong>Tell you what Matt, if you're ever in Atlanta I'll let you drive the beast! You will one of but a few.
C5R is building a race car first and a street car second or so it sounds to me. I'm building the ultimate RELIABLE street car that pays homage to the 69 Camaro ZL-1. The all aluminum 427 was state of the art for that period and I want this car to be the same for this. I don't want experimental parts that are prone to break. Like I said, I want to be able to drive this car to the beach with as much confidence as I would have in stock SS.
The 18x11 rear Fikses will allow me to get a little more traction and should one of the Ferrari or souped-up BMW or Mercedes owners up at the club wise off about my Z06 I'll just say, "Screw your pretentious ***, I've got a Camaro at home that will blow your piece of **** away". That's why I decided to the Strange 12 bolt. Reliability.
That's what I want. A real ***-stomping American muscle car with a history. It won't be the fastest car on the street but it won't take crap from many either. A car that will look as good with the hood up as it does smoking the tires in third gear.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OMG you have a Z06 too? Every time I look at this thread it gets better. What have you done to that car so far? Or is it stock?
<strong>Tell you what Matt, if you're ever in Atlanta I'll let you drive the beast! You will one of but a few.
C5R is building a race car first and a street car second or so it sounds to me. I'm building the ultimate RELIABLE street car that pays homage to the 69 Camaro ZL-1. The all aluminum 427 was state of the art for that period and I want this car to be the same for this. I don't want experimental parts that are prone to break. Like I said, I want to be able to drive this car to the beach with as much confidence as I would have in stock SS.
The 18x11 rear Fikses will allow me to get a little more traction and should one of the Ferrari or souped-up BMW or Mercedes owners up at the club wise off about my Z06 I'll just say, "Screw your pretentious ***, I've got a Camaro at home that will blow your piece of **** away". That's why I decided to the Strange 12 bolt. Reliability.
That's what I want. A real ***-stomping American muscle car with a history. It won't be the fastest car on the street but it won't take crap from many either. A car that will look as good with the hood up as it does smoking the tires in third gear.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OMG you have a Z06 too? Every time I look at this thread it gets better. What have you done to that car so far? Or is it stock?
Thread Starter
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From: Atlanta
Re: Starting with C5R block.... I put a Ripper shifter in the Z06, that's all.
The GMMG exhaust may sound entirely different attached to the 427. We'll see. The GMMG is loud but not throaty enough. The 02 Z06 has a better sound. Just needs to be a little louder for the Camaro.
The GMMG exhaust may sound entirely different attached to the 427. We'll see. The GMMG is loud but not throaty enough. The 02 Z06 has a better sound. Just needs to be a little louder for the Camaro.
Re: Starting with C5R block.... If you are going to go with the C5R heads you will need a block with a bore of at least 4.10". This is what Kaltech told me about it in an email:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Hello,
The heads can be used on a 4.100" but the valves will be very close to the bore. The valve sizes are 2.180 / 1.625. They use 1.550 diameter springs. To complete the bare heads you will need just about everything, seats, valves, springs, etc. Thanks for the email.
Thanks,
Chris Gelineau
Katech Inc.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It looks like to be on the safe side, use a block with a bore around 4.12" or more.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Hello,
The heads can be used on a 4.100" but the valves will be very close to the bore. The valve sizes are 2.180 / 1.625. They use 1.550 diameter springs. To complete the bare heads you will need just about everything, seats, valves, springs, etc. Thanks for the email.
Thanks,
Chris Gelineau
Katech Inc.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It looks like to be on the safe side, use a block with a bore around 4.12" or more.
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Starting with C5R block.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by grb:
<strong>I believe the C5R block bore is 4.13.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">it comes 4.120 and is capible of 4.160 according to GM. Katech says the max is 4.13
<strong>I believe the C5R block bore is 4.13.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">it comes 4.120 and is capible of 4.160 according to GM. Katech says the max is 4.13
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 59
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From: Warren, Mi.
Re: Starting with C5R block.... grb, this is kinda off the subject but is your Zl1 the car they show on GMMG's web site? If so, it is a bad a$$ car, I know first hand cause I got to drive it, that's one of the perk's of my job. If not it's still a bad a$$ed car. By the way the chambered exhaust sounds awesome, if I had that system in my car the radio would stay off!!! JMHO.
Thread Starter
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From: Atlanta
Re: Starting with C5R block.... Say, Yep it's ZL-1 #51 and my engine builder owned the original #51 alum 427 ZL-1 Camaro. I met Matt (GMMG) at Jumper Chev. here in Atlanta in March or April and drove the red car. I loved it and ordered one on the spot. Not from Jumper though, eventually from Tom Henry. I drove a stage II the next week and was hooked on even more ponies. The C5R 427 should satisfy my need for sudden and rapid acceleration.
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Warren, Mi.
Re: Starting with C5R block.... I was at work wrenching on a car and heard a rumble in the lot and popped my head up and seen this Z28. Then I saw Scott Settlemire behind the wheel (and said it figures) he told me it was a one off vehicle built by a company called GMMG Inc. We talked about it for a while and he handed me the key's and said "BE CAREFULL". When I got back is when he asked how it felt riding on $5000 shocks!! Sorry to ramble on, if you have any pic's of the car please post them I'd like to save them to my pc.
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 27
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From: Orange, CA
Re: Starting with C5R block.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nickn20:
<strong>c5r block stroked to a 427 your crank of choice....lunati, and a think childs and alberts has one now. c5r heads, custom sheet metal intake, forged rods, forged pistons, get the compression ratio around 9:1, and a custom twin turbo setup, adjustable boost, 6-20 psi, possibly halltech systems could design you one? and speed pro/fast would be a must. you said money wasn't a issue right? hehe. you would need a custom fuel system of course.... ok im done.... haha
halltech TT ona z06
<img src="http://www.corvettec5.com/store/Turbo%20Project/HalltechTTafter12psistreet.jpg" alt=" - " /></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OH...MY...GOD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
That is the most beautiful C5 engine bay I've ever seen!!!
Somebody get me a towel <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />
<strong>c5r block stroked to a 427 your crank of choice....lunati, and a think childs and alberts has one now. c5r heads, custom sheet metal intake, forged rods, forged pistons, get the compression ratio around 9:1, and a custom twin turbo setup, adjustable boost, 6-20 psi, possibly halltech systems could design you one? and speed pro/fast would be a must. you said money wasn't a issue right? hehe. you would need a custom fuel system of course.... ok im done.... haha
halltech TT ona z06
<img src="http://www.corvettec5.com/store/Turbo%20Project/HalltechTTafter12psistreet.jpg" alt=" - " /></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OH...MY...GOD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
That is the most beautiful C5 engine bay I've ever seen!!!
Somebody get me a towel <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />