Starting with C5R block....
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Starting with C5R block.... what parts would you use to build the ultimate streetable 427? Cost is no object. The motor will replace a LS6 in a new 02 Camaro. Rear end will be Strange 12 bolt. McLeod twin disk clutch.
I know some of you guys have had a lot of experience with these LS based engines. I want power, no adders and absolutely reliable. Will not be raced.
Also, what do you think the LS6 (will have less than 100 miles on it), clutch and rear end will be worth?
I know some of you guys have had a lot of experience with these LS based engines. I want power, no adders and absolutely reliable. Will not be raced.
Also, what do you think the LS6 (will have less than 100 miles on it), clutch and rear end will be worth?
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... why would your camaro have an LS6?
what i would do is use the block (4.125" bore), a 4" Lunati crank, forged rods of some sort (6.125"), and nice Ross or JE forged pistons. Add to that a good sponsor's head and cam set up (i would recommend MTI LS6 heads) and an LS6 intake. Cam is up to you but you can go pretty darn big without sacrificing a whole lot. For safety's sake id go with bigger inj. (36#+) and a good fuel system. LS1_edit to tune it.
what i would do is use the block (4.125" bore), a 4" Lunati crank, forged rods of some sort (6.125"), and nice Ross or JE forged pistons. Add to that a good sponsor's head and cam set up (i would recommend MTI LS6 heads) and an LS6 intake. Cam is up to you but you can go pretty darn big without sacrificing a whole lot. For safety's sake id go with bigger inj. (36#+) and a good fuel system. LS1_edit to tune it.
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... The car is a GMMG ZL-1. We are planning on larger injectors and MAFT with a port-matched aluminum intake. Coil packs will be moved and custom valve covers to match intake. I'm guessing a FTRA would probably help. Probably go with 3.73 gears unless someone has had more fun with something else.
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... gears are up to you since it doesnt sound like you'll be at the track constantly. there is no necessity for an aluminum intake...unless of course you were doing a sheetmetal intake with real C5R heads...but be prepared for 11k down the drain <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> anyway, I havent seen ANY good reviews on the Holley yet...in fact, the one or two ive heard used, sucked. they went back to the LS6. provided with the right cam, the intake will perform to 550rw easy. Colonel's 9.82 camaro runs this intake. also be aware that the valvecovers will need some work to use the stock valvecover gaskets and all that. I guess you'll be going with shaft mount rockers?? or is this all for show.
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... Crane rollers. Not just for show, although I want to see the engine, and want it to look good when the hood is open. We see the intake as more for show but this builder has gotten good results port matching the intake to the heads.
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From: Troy, AL
Re: Starting with C5R block.... You said "cost no object" so I'd definitely go with C5R heads (which require a custom intake manifold), a healthy solid lift cam, titanium valves, and a Fel-Pro system. You would need dish top pistons to keep the compression ratio pump gas friendly (I'd shoot for a C/R of about 12:1) due to the C5R head's 38 cc chambers. 600 RWHP easy! <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... Will a solid roller cause any problems? I don't know what kind of heads we are going to use. So you're saying there is a specific C5R head? We have not discussed the drive shaft. Any real advantage to graphite or whatever?
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... Good luck.Sounds cool.Who's going to be your tuner?Do you have any info on the intake you want to use?Also do a search for the C5R heads.They are awesome but cost mucho dinero.
Keep us posted.And if it helps katechengines.com <img border="0" alt="[pimp]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_pimp.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Z06 Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/z06.gif" />
Keep us posted.And if it helps katechengines.com <img border="0" alt="[pimp]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_pimp.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Z06 Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/z06.gif" />
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by grb:
<strong>The car is a GMMG ZL-1. We are planning on larger injectors and MAFT with a port-matched aluminum intake. Coil packs will be moved and custom valve covers to match intake. I'm guessing a FTRA would probably help. Probably go with 3.73 gears unless someone has had more fun with something else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You should test out the Stealth lid/filter on that car: http://www.fasttoys.net/9398fbodyframes.html It has a larger exposed area than stock (370% more) and uses the Corvette sized air filter. Let that beast breathe!!!!
<strong>The car is a GMMG ZL-1. We are planning on larger injectors and MAFT with a port-matched aluminum intake. Coil packs will be moved and custom valve covers to match intake. I'm guessing a FTRA would probably help. Probably go with 3.73 gears unless someone has had more fun with something else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You should test out the Stealth lid/filter on that car: http://www.fasttoys.net/9398fbodyframes.html It has a larger exposed area than stock (370% more) and uses the Corvette sized air filter. Let that beast breathe!!!!
Re: Starting with C5R block.... There are C5R heads....rather then a 15 degree LS1/6 they are a 11 degree head. As mentioned by everyone else, you will need a custom Manifold. The GM part number for the heads is P/N 12480090 (has more chamber material for shaping then the 12480005) or (the 12480005 less chamber material 38CC chamber and basically a replica of the 12480090). These heads actually have 30CC chambers not 38CC. This is the actual head that was used on the C5R to win the 24HR LeMans.
If you were serious about the C5R setup the heads were actually designed for a "Kinsler" type fuel injection setup. The heads are around $2600.00 with no core. Because they are a different head no core is required. The intake depends on the setup you will run.
With the actual C5R block you should also use a dry sump oil pump system because the bay to bay breathing has been eliminated. I would also use a stand alone fuel system because of a more detailed tuning you would have over LS1 edit.
What is the key to sucess is the cam you choose, and the goal you are trying to reach. With the aforementioned setup they are restricted to 600HP on the fly. Since you are not stock car or ASA racing you have no restriction. You can get the larger cam and expect 550+ RWHP. Just depends how radical you want to go.
If you were serious about the C5R setup the heads were actually designed for a "Kinsler" type fuel injection setup. The heads are around $2600.00 with no core. Because they are a different head no core is required. The intake depends on the setup you will run.
With the actual C5R block you should also use a dry sump oil pump system because the bay to bay breathing has been eliminated. I would also use a stand alone fuel system because of a more detailed tuning you would have over LS1 edit.
What is the key to sucess is the cam you choose, and the goal you are trying to reach. With the aforementioned setup they are restricted to 600HP on the fly. Since you are not stock car or ASA racing you have no restriction. You can get the larger cam and expect 550+ RWHP. Just depends how radical you want to go.
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... Thanks for the info, I'll run these things by Lamar.
Hack it up? After Fred Gibbs could not sell the 50 orignal ZL1s Chevrolet was left with 19 cars which they knew they would never sell. They decided to give most of them to high profile racers. Lamar Walden was given the very first one of these cars. #51. I am getting ZL1 #51.
GMMG is offering a 427 option. I don't know who is going to build this engine or what will be in it. That won't be the case with Lamar Walden.
Lamar built my first hot rod motor, a 327 Crane roller, 2.02 intake etc. 55 Chevy. And, he's going to build my last.
Lamar's 69 ZL1 was the only white one produced. I'm getting mine in MNB with the stripes in white. I just don't want a repainted car and certainly not white!
Hack it up? Hardly. I think having the same man build the aluminum 427 for ZL1 #51 that owned the original aluminum motored 427 #51 is great. He is looking forward to the project. It will be documented every step of the way. Any of you guys who know Lamar or know of him know his reputation. It will be done right.
I'm looking to you guys for the latest tips and tricks because I've read your posts over the years and figure with your experience you can probably help us build this motor the best it can be.
I want max power but very reliable. I want to be able to get in this car and drive from Atlanta to the beach with absolute confidence. I know Lamar would love to see me add some nitrous but right now I'm leaning to all motor!
Thanks for you help. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Hack it up? After Fred Gibbs could not sell the 50 orignal ZL1s Chevrolet was left with 19 cars which they knew they would never sell. They decided to give most of them to high profile racers. Lamar Walden was given the very first one of these cars. #51. I am getting ZL1 #51.
GMMG is offering a 427 option. I don't know who is going to build this engine or what will be in it. That won't be the case with Lamar Walden.
Lamar built my first hot rod motor, a 327 Crane roller, 2.02 intake etc. 55 Chevy. And, he's going to build my last.
Lamar's 69 ZL1 was the only white one produced. I'm getting mine in MNB with the stripes in white. I just don't want a repainted car and certainly not white!
Hack it up? Hardly. I think having the same man build the aluminum 427 for ZL1 #51 that owned the original aluminum motored 427 #51 is great. He is looking forward to the project. It will be documented every step of the way. Any of you guys who know Lamar or know of him know his reputation. It will be done right.
I'm looking to you guys for the latest tips and tricks because I've read your posts over the years and figure with your experience you can probably help us build this motor the best it can be.
I want max power but very reliable. I want to be able to get in this car and drive from Atlanta to the beach with absolute confidence. I know Lamar would love to see me add some nitrous but right now I'm leaning to all motor!
Thanks for you help. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Re: Starting with C5R block.... Sounds like an awesome project. C5R heads are big dollars and have the potential to make huge power, but go ahead and figure another $5-6K on top of what LS6 ported heads would cost. They also require a custom fabricated intake as mentioned already.
I'd stick with a C5R block for ultimate durability, then some Stage 3 LS6 heads and intake. I can drive my car (MTI 434ci) anywhere I want with no issues, and I only run/race on 93 Octane. Still averages about 21 mpg too!
Check the link in my signature for more details, you might pick up some ideas.
Tony
I'd stick with a C5R block for ultimate durability, then some Stage 3 LS6 heads and intake. I can drive my car (MTI 434ci) anywhere I want with no issues, and I only run/race on 93 Octane. Still averages about 21 mpg too!
Check the link in my signature for more details, you might pick up some ideas.
Tony
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... IF it was me....
C5R block (4.125"), Lunati 4" crank, Lunati/Oliver/Crower 6.125" forged rods, Ross/JE/Wiseco forged pistons, MTI Stage 3 LS6 heads (about 12:1), LS6 intake, S1 (244/244) cam, FLP's with a better y-pipe or all out duals, GMMG catback???, McLeod twin disk, ACPT CF DS, Moser 12-bolt with 4.10's, full BMR suspension, HAL shocks, Eibach springs, etc, etc.
C5R block (4.125"), Lunati 4" crank, Lunati/Oliver/Crower 6.125" forged rods, Ross/JE/Wiseco forged pistons, MTI Stage 3 LS6 heads (about 12:1), LS6 intake, S1 (244/244) cam, FLP's with a better y-pipe or all out duals, GMMG catback???, McLeod twin disk, ACPT CF DS, Moser 12-bolt with 4.10's, full BMR suspension, HAL shocks, Eibach springs, etc, etc.
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... Thanks Tony I knew I could count on you guys for some good info.
Ryan, we are using the alum. intake mainly for show. With the coil packs moved off the valve covers and polished alum. valve covers and intake we are going to try to make the engine look like a "real" race engine should look.
Lamar will deal directly with Comp on a custom cam. If you guys have any ideas in that area let me know. The headers will be ceramic coated dyna tech.
We are planning on stainless steel valves.
Who makes titanium and are they any better?
Ryan, we are using the alum. intake mainly for show. With the coil packs moved off the valve covers and polished alum. valve covers and intake we are going to try to make the engine look like a "real" race engine should look.
Lamar will deal directly with Comp on a custom cam. If you guys have any ideas in that area let me know. The headers will be ceramic coated dyna tech.
We are planning on stainless steel valves.
Who makes titanium and are they any better?
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Re: Starting with C5R block.... Ryan, GMMG's installed Penske remote reservoir shock system works pretty well. I drove the red ZL1 and thought it handled as well as my ZO6. We are, however, going to replace the panhard bar and several other rear end pieces with Hotchkis parts (sp).
Not too sure about the rear end ratio but we are leaning toward 3.73. I drove a stage II ZL1 with 4.10s and first and second gear were pretty much useless.
Not too sure about the rear end ratio but we are leaning toward 3.73. I drove a stage II ZL1 with 4.10s and first and second gear were pretty much useless.
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From: Troy, AL
Re: Starting with C5R block.... Did he or did he not say "cost is no object"? That spells C5R heads to me. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
Now if we meant "cost is kindof an object" then yes, LS6 heads are the way to go.
Now if we meant "cost is kindof an object" then yes, LS6 heads are the way to go.
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From: Atlanta
Re: Starting with C5R block.... Seems to me I said cost is no object. C5R heads it will be. Where can we get an intake to fit it. Also, I have to be able to get after market headers to fit them...although, I guess they could be custom made.
Damn it! Once this thing get over $100K I'm drawing the line! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Any exhaust ideas? I don't particularly like the GMMG chambered exhaust sound.
Damn it! Once this thing get over $100K I'm drawing the line! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Any exhaust ideas? I don't particularly like the GMMG chambered exhaust sound.