grb

The saga continues. I got an e-mail response from Chris Gelineau at Katech that said complete C5R heads cost $12,000. For the street he said he would go with Stage III LS6 heads.
I'm out of town now so I'll see what Lamar has to say later in the week.

I like the idea of having something unique and exotic but for 12 grand they are gonna have to spit out another 50 ponies and at a usable (street) range!

2000LS1

So what do some of these custom intake manifolds look like for the C5-R heads?

z0sense

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by grb:
<strong>The saga continues. I got an e-mail response from Chris Gelineau at Katech that said complete C5R heads cost $12,000. For the street he said he would go with Stage III LS6 heads.
I'm out of town now so I'll see what Lamar has to say later in the week.

I like the idea of having something unique and exotic but for 12 grand they are gonna have to spit out another 50 ponies and at a usable (street) range!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am impressed, to say the least, that this guy can talk people into spending 12K on a set of heads that cost 1/6 that bare.

Can someone break down the pricing because I have troublke seeing where Katech gets off saying 12000 bucks for these heads. wwwhhhhheeeeeewwwww!

I promise I will not drop that much in my set. I can't wait to post!

BTW,
For 12K I would hope they gice you 150+ ponies. That is the price of a built 427 short block and a D1 procharger!

D.

grb

Katech seems to be pretty reasonable so I don't know where the $12k comes from. I'll let you know when I find out. I've got a hunch he's talking about intake, racing valves, etc.

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by grb:
<strong> I got an e-mail response from Chris Gelineau at Katech that said complete C5R heads cost $12,000. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Holy **** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> That is a total load of BS!!!! I have been doing a fair amount of research in this and this is what I have found so far:

2 - GM C5R bare heads: $2350.00
8 - Manley 2.180" titanium intake values: $304
8 - Manley 1.625" titanium exhaust values: $304
16 - Comp Cams 1.550" duel valve springs: $299
16 - Comp Cams 1.550" valve seats: $99
16 - Comp Cams 1.550" titanium keepers & retainers: $198
16 - Comp Cams Hi-Tech stainless 1.6 roller rocker arms: $499
2 - Comp Cam rocker arm rails: $299

I am still looking for valve seals, valve guides, and push rod guides. So far for the items listed, it is a total of $4352. I am thinking that the other parts and tools needed to assemble the heads will run about another $500ish. So unless Katech is charging $7000 labor for assembling the heads, I have no idea where they get the $12000 from <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> The C5R heads are not cheap by any means, but IMO they are well worth it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

grb

I'm in FLA right now, but when I get back to Atlanta I'll find out. That is, unless someone comes up with some facts before then. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

Crazyquik

Louis, the LS6 flows better than the SB2? What how does the LS1 stack up against the SB2?

Thats some pretty cool info.

J.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

grb, if you assemble details, I might be interested in writing an article about your car for the upcoming LS1 Technical Performance article and features section of the site.

John Ryan
admin/owner

prostockjohn@hotmail.com

Colonel

"2 - GM C5R bare heads: $2350.00"

Please show me where I can get a pair of C5R heads for $2350.

You sure about those prices? I've never heard of a set of LS1 titanium valves for $600. I thought they were more like $1500.

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

Colonel - I don't know if I should say their name or not but, I know where you can get 2 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> C5R heads for $2,350 +shipping.

**Hint** They used to be a sponsor and their name rhymes with "race". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

When are you going to have your motor together? That's gonna be one bad ****. <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />

John

<small>[ July 16, 2002, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: XLR8NSS ]</small>

RyanJ

SDPC lists them at 1275 each. but shipping is probably a lot, especially if they do it like gmpartsdirect.com does. 12k doesnt seem that bad for Ti valves, porting, an intake, and assembly with all the goodies.

Ryan

grb

John, we are going to document the car every step of the way. Lamar said the car will be in two magazines and a short spot on ESPN 2. I'll share the photos etc. with you as we go so you will have the first reports.

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by XLR8NSS:
<strong>**Hint** They used to be a sponsor and their name rhymes with "race". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> That is where I have found them.

Colonel, the price of $600 is what Manley quoted me for a set. Where have you seen other LS1 valves?

grb

Alright, got the low-down on the heads today. They will indeed cost $12K ready to run. I'll post some details tomorrow. I still don't know how many ponies they will deliver over Stage III LS6s!!

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

That's pretty cool that this buildup is going to be documented like that.

I don't know for sure but, the C5R heads should be good for a decent amount of power in the normal street range.(6500rpm) Now, depending on how hot this motor is built you could see an extra 150+ horsepower outta these heads if your willing to spin the motor up a little higher.(8000+) The custom Jesel valvetrain shouldn't have a problem with the rpms and if the bottom end is built right it shouldn't either.
<img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Like the Colonel said earlier, these heads should be considered a power adder.(Kinda like a continuously full bottle of nitrous. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Have fun with the buildup. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

John

Scott99Z

Even if the C5R heads are $12k all pimped out, how much are the equally prepped LS6 heads? Probably a hefty chunk. Are they worth it? I don't know, is the C5R block "worth it" over a resleeved block? You said you wanted to "build the ultimate streetable 427, cost is no object". Well it wouldn't be the ultimate streetable 427 without the ultimate heads.

grb

Scott, you are assumming that these exotic C5R heads are reliable and streetable (long life and low maintenance) as opposed to a short racing season). We don't know that. If they are indeed reliable and produce at least another 50 HP I'll buy them. Otherwise they would be a problematic ornament.

I'm wondering how an electric water pump, assumming they are available for the C5R, would work.

Colonel

If anything, I'd say the C5R heads should be more reliable if anything being as how they were designed for high rpm abuse and EXTREMELY high compression ratios (read: HIGH cylinder pressures!) and would be used with only the best components (like Jesel rockers, titanium valves, and berilium valve guides.) Honestly, a failure of the heads themselves would be almost hard to imagine...no moving parts ya know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Colonel

An electric water pump for a C5R would be the same as one for an LS1. (Unfortunately, one is left to put together a setup since there is not currently a commercially available LS1 specific kit.)

J-Rod

Well,I had about two pages of a typed response, and it all just disappeared. That sucks...

Anyhow, here are the highlights.

If money is no object then a complete C5R package is obviously the way to go.

Remember a motor is nothing but an airpump. So, you want the best head possible to make the best power.

Now, to determine the POTENTIAL power of any head, I have always used 2.15*CFM, on a V8. I know that this assumes an all out race motor, but it gives us an idea of the performance delta between the two heads.

Ok, using PatrickG's numbers of:

Ported LS6 heads flow around 300-320 cfm at .600 lift. Which equates to 645-688 HP

Ported C5R heads flow around 420-450 cfm at .600 lift. Which equates to 903-967.5 HP

As I said, those are POTENTIAL numbers. But it gives you an idea of what the performance delta between the two is. I would have to say that if the rest of the system doesn't become a big restriction, that you could make 200HP over a set of ported LS6s.

But, at those flow numbers the factory throttle body and LS6 manifold are basically just like a NASCAR restrictor plate.

I think I would look towards the Kinsler unit since there isn't the R&D that would be required for a one-off unit from somone else. That unit has been used, and the bugs should be out of it by now.

Anyhow, best of luck, and keep us posted.

Now for a slightly off tangent question. It was mentioned that these heads would no be a candidate for stock bore motors (valve clearance).

Let me ask two questions then.

How big is the biggest valve you can put into a stock bore motor. Just trying to figure out if you could put a bit smaller valve in the head and use them.

Secondly, could you keep the valves, and just notch the block, sort of like the old BBC? I haven't had an LSx motor apart, so I don't know how the valve angle and the cylinder walls jive up in this sort of combo.

<small>[ July 19, 2002, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: J-Rod ]</small>