New motor is in, but I have some plug issues...
07-31-2002, 07:11 AM
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New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... Everything went together OK yesterday, and the car is now running... However, for some reason I've lost 2nd gear in the TH350. Hopefully it's just a piece of trash or something in the valvebody. I'm going to try to take care of that today.
The biggest concern I have right now are sparkplugs. I had installed NGK TR-6's in the car (gapped @ .043"). Yesterday after an hour or so of driving/running the car to seat the rings, I drained the oil and changed the filter. There was also a good bit of rocker noise, and I needed to check the valve lash after the initial break in anyway. To make a long story short, when I removed the plugs to have a look at them and make it easier to spin the motor over by hand for the valve lash adjustment, I noticed that two plugs did not look good. One had the electrode bent over really close to the tip, and another one was banged completely closed, and had fouled the plug since it obviously couldn't fire. Apparantyl things are really tight in my combustion chamber, and I'm not going to be able to run a standard reach plug.
Now, my question. Does anyone know of a shorter reach plug offhand? I know I can get some Champion S57C or S59C race plugs, as I've used these before with N2O, but they are super super cold plugs. I'd prefer something in the same ballpark as the TR-6.
Any ideas?
The biggest concern I have right now are sparkplugs. I had installed NGK TR-6's in the car (gapped @ .043"). Yesterday after an hour or so of driving/running the car to seat the rings, I drained the oil and changed the filter. There was also a good bit of rocker noise, and I needed to check the valve lash after the initial break in anyway. To make a long story short, when I removed the plugs to have a look at them and make it easier to spin the motor over by hand for the valve lash adjustment, I noticed that two plugs did not look good. One had the electrode bent over really close to the tip, and another one was banged completely closed, and had fouled the plug since it obviously couldn't fire. Apparantyl things are really tight in my combustion chamber, and I'm not going to be able to run a standard reach plug.
Now, my question. Does anyone know of a shorter reach plug offhand? I know I can get some Champion S57C or S59C race plugs, as I've used these before with N2O, but they are super super cold plugs. I'd prefer something in the same ballpark as the TR-6.
Any ideas?
07-31-2002, 08:19 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... How is everything besides that George? I saw your motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Those pistons look impressive hahaha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
Cheers,
Chris
07-31-2002, 08:31 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... Chris, there's a basic rundown of everything here. Hopefully things will progress nicely today and I'll make it to the track.
Tim thanks for the link on the plugs. I just talked to my racing buddy who runs a shop in Gainesville. He tell me that this is common in a motor like mine, and we just need to index the plugs to have adequate clearance. We are going to take care of the tranny there as well, so I'm going to load up the car on the trailer here in a few minutes (as long as my oil pan part comes in; see other post referenced above <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ) and thrash on it today and try to get it ready.
I'll keep everybody updated as much as I can...
Tim thanks for the link on the plugs. I just talked to my racing buddy who runs a shop in Gainesville. He tell me that this is common in a motor like mine, and we just need to index the plugs to have adequate clearance. We are going to take care of the tranny there as well, so I'm going to load up the car on the trailer here in a few minutes (as long as my oil pan part comes in; see other post referenced above <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ) and thrash on it today and try to get it ready.
I'll keep everybody updated as much as I can...
07-31-2002, 08:31 AM
#5
Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... They make some thin washers which are used to shim sparkplugs in order to index them. Maybe you could just slap a few of those shim/washers on each plug and continue using the TR6?
Glad you pulled the plugs and inspected them! I don't know of many people that would do that in such a short operation time.
Tony
Glad you pulled the plugs and inspected them! I don't know of many people that would do that in such a short operation time.
Tony
07-31-2002, 08:43 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... Tony, that's what we're going to do. Using indexing washers to position the electrode away from the piston.
I was going to check the plugs anyway, but I had to pull them to make it easier to turn the motor over by hand.
I was going to check the plugs anyway, but I had to pull them to make it easier to turn the motor over by hand.
07-31-2002, 09:21 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... George,
Make sure you get enough miles on the motor to seal the rings, proper breakin, and make sure everything feels right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I wouldn't rev to 8K first time out either LOL. Take it easy at first and make sure everything is good to go <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> (Like a 7000rpm shift point at first. Then turn up the wick)
Cheers,
Chris
Make sure you get enough miles on the motor to seal the rings, proper breakin, and make sure everything feels right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I wouldn't rev to 8K first time out either LOL. Take it easy at first and make sure everything is good to go <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> (Like a 7000rpm shift point at first. Then turn up the wick)
Cheers,
Chris
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07-31-2002, 09:36 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... Don't worry, I'll be taking fairly easy... I have over 1 hour of driving on it now, so I think the rings have had plenty of time to seat. The oil that came out of it looked OK (at least it wasn't full of coolant this time).
If I make any runs tonight, they'll probably be very easy shakedown passes...
If I make any runs tonight, they'll probably be very easy shakedown passes...
07-31-2002, 09:39 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... did you use the washers yet? How does it feel with all 8 plugs firing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
Chris
07-31-2002, 09:45 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... No, I'm waiting for the stupid part to come in for the oilpan, then I'll load up the car and head to Gainesville to (hopefully) fix the tranny, index the plugs, swap injectors, and relash the valves. Damn, that's a lot of **** I have to do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
07-31-2002, 01:57 PM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... I would rather run a shorter plug.
Sounds good!
Keep us posted!
I'm glad ARE turned stuff around so fast, I know they want you to be happy.
Sounds good!
Keep us posted!
I'm glad ARE turned stuff around so fast, I know they want you to be happy.
07-31-2002, 04:50 PM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... Why didn't ARE know that this was going to happen? Aren't these the types of things that you should check before you send a motor out?
07-31-2002, 07:48 PM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... GeorgeC, i run GM Rapidfire plugs #3, they are shorter reach and are about 2 heat ranges colder than stock. Using index washers can be worth some power because indexing plugs makes more uniform combustion, may see 5 to 10 hp, but keep in mind washers also heat up running temperature of plug slightly.Remember if you closed some gaps just driving her easy, you will really slam unclearanced plugs at higher rpm with rod stretch and crank pin flex.
07-31-2002, 10:51 PM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1derfull:
<strong>GeorgeC, i run GM Rapidfire plugs #3, they are shorter reach and are about 2 heat ranges colder than stock. Using index washers can be worth some power because indexing plugs makes more uniform combustion, may see 5 to 10 hp, but keep in mind washers also heat up running temperature of plug slightly.Remember if you closed some gaps just driving her easy, you will really slam unclearanced plugs at higher rpm with rod stretch and crank pin flex.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had already been thinking about the same thing... There is going to be less clearance due to the rod stretch at higher (~7800) RPM's. I've been researching the plugs a little, but haven't really come up with anything yet. The GM Rapidfire #3 plug you mentioned sounds like it may be just the ticket! How much shorter reach do they have, and are these readily available at most parts places (Pep Boys, Autozone, etc.)?
Thanks for the tip LS1derfull!
<strong>GeorgeC, i run GM Rapidfire plugs #3, they are shorter reach and are about 2 heat ranges colder than stock. Using index washers can be worth some power because indexing plugs makes more uniform combustion, may see 5 to 10 hp, but keep in mind washers also heat up running temperature of plug slightly.Remember if you closed some gaps just driving her easy, you will really slam unclearanced plugs at higher rpm with rod stretch and crank pin flex.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had already been thinking about the same thing... There is going to be less clearance due to the rod stretch at higher (~7800) RPM's. I've been researching the plugs a little, but haven't really come up with anything yet. The GM Rapidfire #3 plug you mentioned sounds like it may be just the ticket! How much shorter reach do they have, and are these readily available at most parts places (Pep Boys, Autozone, etc.)?
Thanks for the tip LS1derfull!
07-31-2002, 10:55 PM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JP98SS:
<strong>Why didn't ARE know that this was going to happen? Aren't these the types of things that you should check before you send a motor out?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Normally I would say yes, but not on a deal like mine. I have domed pistons, and the tiny 4.8L truck heads (small combustion chambers). There is very little clearance in the chamber. I knew this wasn't going to be a typical drop in the car and go combination, as I consider it pretty much on the ragged edge. A lot of stuff just has to be learned as I go...
<strong>Why didn't ARE know that this was going to happen? Aren't these the types of things that you should check before you send a motor out?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Normally I would say yes, but not on a deal like mine. I have domed pistons, and the tiny 4.8L truck heads (small combustion chambers). There is very little clearance in the chamber. I knew this wasn't going to be a typical drop in the car and go combination, as I consider it pretty much on the ragged edge. A lot of stuff just has to be learned as I go...
07-31-2002, 11:18 PM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... Did they bother to check piston to valve clearance? Didn't you pay for an assembled motor that would fire up and run as delivered? This is assuming that you did not sign up for some R&D project and got a killer deal on the setup.
08-01-2002, 02:13 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>I would rather run a shorter plug.
Sounds good!
Keep us posted!
I'm glad ARE turned stuff around so fast, I know they want you to be happy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">there is no need for a shorter plug, this happens in high compression motors all the time with big domed pistons....the dome actually hits the ground strap on the plug and bangs it shut. Almost sounds like detonation
you just have to index the strap away from the dome, thats it.
<strong>I would rather run a shorter plug.
Sounds good!
Keep us posted!
I'm glad ARE turned stuff around so fast, I know they want you to be happy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">there is no need for a shorter plug, this happens in high compression motors all the time with big domed pistons....the dome actually hits the ground strap on the plug and bangs it shut. Almost sounds like detonation
you just have to index the strap away from the dome, thats it.
08-01-2002, 06:17 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JP98SS:
<strong>Did they bother to check piston to valve clearance? Didn't you pay for an assembled motor that would fire up and run as delivered? This is assuming that you did not sign up for some R&D project and got a killer deal on the setup.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, P to V clearance was checked. Nick even went as far as to check with the cam degreed in at multiple settings to ensure that P to V clearance wouldn't be an issue. Like Jimmy Kash said, this is not a rare occurance in a domed piston/high compression motor. That's the same thing I got from my racing buddies down south. A shorter plug, or indexing of the NGK's should solve that problem.
<strong>Did they bother to check piston to valve clearance? Didn't you pay for an assembled motor that would fire up and run as delivered? This is assuming that you did not sign up for some R&D project and got a killer deal on the setup.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, P to V clearance was checked. Nick even went as far as to check with the cam degreed in at multiple settings to ensure that P to V clearance wouldn't be an issue. Like Jimmy Kash said, this is not a rare occurance in a domed piston/high compression motor. That's the same thing I got from my racing buddies down south. A shorter plug, or indexing of the NGK's should solve that problem.
08-01-2002, 08:35 AM
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Re: New motor is in, but I have some plug issues... JP98SS
There is a world of difference using a plug that is too long compared to pistons smacking off the valves!
This motor is a one off custom unit. If you saw how much those pistons are domed and how small the chambers are you would crap your pants!
Chris
There is a world of difference using a plug that is too long compared to pistons smacking off the valves!
This motor is a one off custom unit. If you saw how much those pistons are domed and how small the chambers are you would crap your pants!
Chris