SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,303
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From: Delray Beach, Fl.
SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!! With all the cams comming out for the LS1 and all the R&D work for the LS1 do u think some cams are MORE suited for a 6sp than a auto?
I truely believe an auto needs a different TQ/HP curve than a 6sp when we're talking about MAX ET/Drag Racing?
I'd like to hear what some of the guru's think about this subject.
Come on guys lets hear it....
JS
<small>[ September 08, 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
I truely believe an auto needs a different TQ/HP curve than a 6sp when we're talking about MAX ET/Drag Racing?
I'd like to hear what some of the guru's think about this subject.
Come on guys lets hear it....
JS
<small>[ September 08, 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,303
Likes: 4
From: Delray Beach, Fl.
Re: SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!! The Eagle STINK!!!!
Does anyone have an opinion about my cam post?
JS
<small>[ September 08, 2002, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
Does anyone have an opinion about my cam post?
JS
<small>[ September 08, 2002, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
TECH Resident
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From: Chattanooga,Tn
Re: SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!! power wise or et wise?
depends what converter you run.IMO
some people also over cam the 6 speeds makes great power on a dyno but if it isnt geared to wont leave the line very well.
depends what converter you run.IMO
some people also over cam the 6 speeds makes great power on a dyno but if it isnt geared to wont leave the line very well.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,303
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From: Delray Beach, Fl.
Re: SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!! ET would be my main concern...
Lets assume u have a 2 setup:One's a 6sp and one's an Auto car.They both run the same tire combo/gearing and the same H/C setup.
Now the AUTO launches at 2600 rpm
The 6sp launches at 6000 rpm
My question is,would u run the same cam in each car without fear that one car might not be best suited for that cams curve?
JS
<small>[ September 08, 2002, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
Lets assume u have a 2 setup:One's a 6sp and one's an Auto car.They both run the same tire combo/gearing and the same H/C setup.
Now the AUTO launches at 2600 rpm
The 6sp launches at 6000 rpm
My question is,would u run the same cam in each car without fear that one car might not be best suited for that cams curve?
JS
<small>[ September 08, 2002, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
TECH Resident
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From: Chattanooga,Tn
Re: SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!! Js I dont think an auto and a manual should run the same gear.I also think the manual would run a little quicker with a cam that will give it more low end.
I would think an auto with say a 4400 stall would work better with a larger cam cause it doesnt see those rpms (2600) for more than a half a second.
A manual that dumps at 6000 will drop rpms the second the tires grab.Assuming the clutch is up for the grab.
Ever notice how manuals with slipping clutchs run real strong with good 60 ft time then when a new clutch is added they tend to spin?
I would think an auto with say a 4400 stall would work better with a larger cam cause it doesnt see those rpms (2600) for more than a half a second.
A manual that dumps at 6000 will drop rpms the second the tires grab.Assuming the clutch is up for the grab.
Ever notice how manuals with slipping clutchs run real strong with good 60 ft time then when a new clutch is added they tend to spin?
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Maryland
Re: SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!! Joel, I agree with H82BBad. Auto's with high stalls like yours and mine don't really launch at 2600. I often stall it to around 3k, and even then, it only remains below 5k for the first fraction of a second. In fact, it may be that we need to analyze this question in reverse. Cause its the M6 guys that drop below their peak hp (not us A4's with stalls) on their shifts. Thus the "general" advantage of A4's on the strip.
Now, back to your question. IMO, the difference between the M6's rpms during a run and the A4's would not be significant enough to run a different camshaft.
Now, back to your question. IMO, the difference between the M6's rpms during a run and the A4's would not be significant enough to run a different camshaft.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,303
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From: Delray Beach, Fl.
Re: SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!! Then there's only 1 answer..
MY VIG SUCKS and I was wrong for taking out the YANK!!!!The VIG dropped my shift ext. from 6800 to 5150 on the 1 to 2 shift and the 2 to 3 shift.A drop of 1650 RPM on both shifts cant be good for my setup...
Patrick G told me I dont wanna see more that 1200 DROP on the shift extension with my setup. Mike at Yank will have my TP4500 back to me by this friday----->TP4500 Here I come!!!
I still wanna make sure the cam is in on a 109 ICL according to the cam card.I'm gonna add the better IRL chain anyway to my setup and a ported oil pump in about 2 weeks.Thats when I'll check the cam timing.....
Dave P. did u decide to go back to the 4.10's
I like my car alot more now that I went back to the 26/4.10 combo.I lost about .05ET/1MPH but I can live with that....
Thanx guys....
JS
MY VIG SUCKS and I was wrong for taking out the YANK!!!!The VIG dropped my shift ext. from 6800 to 5150 on the 1 to 2 shift and the 2 to 3 shift.A drop of 1650 RPM on both shifts cant be good for my setup...
Patrick G told me I dont wanna see more that 1200 DROP on the shift extension with my setup. Mike at Yank will have my TP4500 back to me by this friday----->TP4500 Here I come!!!
I still wanna make sure the cam is in on a 109 ICL according to the cam card.I'm gonna add the better IRL chain anyway to my setup and a ported oil pump in about 2 weeks.Thats when I'll check the cam timing.....
Dave P. did u decide to go back to the 4.10's
I like my car alot more now that I went back to the 26/4.10 combo.I lost about .05ET/1MPH but I can live with that....
Thanx guys....
JS
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Re: SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!! IMO, an A4 needs midrange torque more than top end power for max ET. An A4 lives on 60' times which is built from midrange torque (4000 - 4800 rpm assuming a 4400 stall). The converter's shift extension (and resulting torque multiplication) allows you lower the shift point a bit to go with a cam that has stronger midrange. The success of the 224/224 112 cams shows that theory.
I agree that with a 4400 stall, that torque at brake stall (2600 - 2800) doesn't matter.
You can get around weak midrange power by running more gear, but most of the times I see show that a torquey cam, a YTP 4400 and 3.73s produce as good ET as a high peaking cam & 4.10s or higher gears, and the 3.73 car is much more streetable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Race from a roll and the solution completely changes... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
I agree that with a 4400 stall, that torque at brake stall (2600 - 2800) doesn't matter.
You can get around weak midrange power by running more gear, but most of the times I see show that a torquey cam, a YTP 4400 and 3.73s produce as good ET as a high peaking cam & 4.10s or higher gears, and the 3.73 car is much more streetable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
Race from a roll and the solution completely changes... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,303
Likes: 4
From: Delray Beach, Fl.
Re: SERIOUS CAMSHAFT QUESTIONS!!!! Joel I guess being a Joel too has us thinking on the same lines <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I totally agree with u.
For a MAX ET effort with an AUTO,A flat broad TQ line is the name of the game.Auto's need the power in the first 330FT of the race...
But Dave/HB2BAD and u are all correct.I need a better shift extension and a converter that FLASHES to a TRUE 4400 and stays above 5500 on the upshift...
PatrickG is a wealth of knowledge and has been very helpful.I;ve talked to him online and he had helped me with the converter choice....
PatrickG likes my cam and all he said was to make sure its in where its supposed to be,Straight up and on its 109ICL.....
He told me to see how the car reacts to the NEW CONVERTER FIRST.
He also told me a change in my exhaust configuration would net me some lost TQ too,Most guys would not agree with him but he's seen it on other cars including his own...
I will re-run the car with the YANK first.
Then I might try the exhaust idea?
JULIO has my tune perfectly dialed in now.
I have 28 to 31 degree's of timing and NO KR with shift points set at 6800 on the 1 to 2 shift and 6700 on the 2 to 3 shift.
Julio too agreed with the converter change after seeing the autotap info.He was telling me the shifts are dropping back to low and I need to get more shift extension from the converter.Thats when I told him of my idea to try a Yank and he said,Go for it.
I have the new IRL chain and KATECH oil pump sitting here waiting to go in, and thats when I'll check the ICL on the cam,just to be safe.....
Thanx Rag....
JS
<small>[ September 08, 2002, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
I totally agree with u.
For a MAX ET effort with an AUTO,A flat broad TQ line is the name of the game.Auto's need the power in the first 330FT of the race...
But Dave/HB2BAD and u are all correct.I need a better shift extension and a converter that FLASHES to a TRUE 4400 and stays above 5500 on the upshift...
PatrickG is a wealth of knowledge and has been very helpful.I;ve talked to him online and he had helped me with the converter choice....
PatrickG likes my cam and all he said was to make sure its in where its supposed to be,Straight up and on its 109ICL.....
He told me to see how the car reacts to the NEW CONVERTER FIRST.
He also told me a change in my exhaust configuration would net me some lost TQ too,Most guys would not agree with him but he's seen it on other cars including his own...
I will re-run the car with the YANK first.
Then I might try the exhaust idea?
JULIO has my tune perfectly dialed in now.
I have 28 to 31 degree's of timing and NO KR with shift points set at 6800 on the 1 to 2 shift and 6700 on the 2 to 3 shift.
Julio too agreed with the converter change after seeing the autotap info.He was telling me the shifts are dropping back to low and I need to get more shift extension from the converter.Thats when I told him of my idea to try a Yank and he said,Go for it.
I have the new IRL chain and KATECH oil pump sitting here waiting to go in, and thats when I'll check the ICL on the cam,just to be safe.....
Thanx Rag....
JS
<small>[ September 08, 2002, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>