Cam for road racing
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Palatine, IL
Cam for road racing Looking for a cam. I'll probably tune the computer but for competition I need to switch back to stock programming and rev limiter. I have a Halltech TRIC and a carbon fiber air duct (courtesy of West Coast Corvette :-) ) but everything else will reamain stock. Looking for good midrange without losing low end.
I'm trying to decide between the following:
MTI T1 221/221 .558/.558 112
TR 220/220 .561/.561 112
TR 224/224 .561/.561 112
Any suggestions?
I'm trying to decide between the following:
MTI T1 221/221 .558/.558 112
TR 220/220 .561/.561 112
TR 224/224 .561/.561 112
Any suggestions?
TECH Apprentice
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 318
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From: Leg Dist #31, WA
Re: Cam for road racing Kinda funky if ya need to switch back to stock programming for racing....
Are you "bending" the rules in the bracket yer in, or ??? Weird that you can have an aftermarket cam, but not programming. Do they check for programming? 'Cause w/out it yer gonna be setting off all kindsa grief and trouble codes w/ any of the cams you list, probably misfire codes for a start.
I'd be goin' w/ the TR224. And, even then, depending on length of race, etc, the PCM will be "learning" the whole time and changing parameters, until or unless you get a P0300 or something. In which case, the car will act weaker w/ the SES (BTDT).
Are you "bending" the rules in the bracket yer in, or ??? Weird that you can have an aftermarket cam, but not programming. Do they check for programming? 'Cause w/out it yer gonna be setting off all kindsa grief and trouble codes w/ any of the cams you list, probably misfire codes for a start.
I'd be goin' w/ the TR224. And, even then, depending on length of race, etc, the PCM will be "learning" the whole time and changing parameters, until or unless you get a P0300 or something. In which case, the car will act weaker w/ the SES (BTDT).
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 12
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From: Palatine, IL
Re: Cam for road racing The rule book assess an extra point for ECM tuning. They ask but don't really check. I prefer to play fair.
Out of those cams, which would have the best idle?
Out of those cams, which would have the best idle?
Re: Cam for road racing go to schongin dicky (one of the sponsors on the side) and go to cam shafts and then go to gm performance cams and they have a cam just for road racing see how u like it
Re: Cam for road racing </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by stang killer:
<strong>go to schongin dicky (one of the sponsors on the side) and go to cam shafts and then go to gm performance cams and they have a cam just for road racing see how u like it</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...1981&pid=90925
239/251
.570/.570
106
Now THAT's a cam!
<strong>go to schongin dicky (one of the sponsors on the side) and go to cam shafts and then go to gm performance cams and they have a cam just for road racing see how u like it</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...1981&pid=90925
239/251
.570/.570
106
Now THAT's a cam!
Trending Topics
TECH Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 400
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From: New Hampshire
Re: Cam for road racing </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by stang killer:
<strong>go to schongin dicky (one of the sponsors on the side) and go to cam shafts and then go to gm performance cams and they have a cam just for road racing see how u like it</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ummm.......
If ya need to sound stock ...... that one ain't it !
So guys, wouldn't a road race cam be better at 114 LSA or even 116 LSA (depending on the heads & all), since he'd be at upper RPM most of the time? Would idle better too, if he needs to sound stock.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
<strong>go to schongin dicky (one of the sponsors on the side) and go to cam shafts and then go to gm performance cams and they have a cam just for road racing see how u like it</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ummm.......
If ya need to sound stock ...... that one ain't it !
So guys, wouldn't a road race cam be better at 114 LSA or even 116 LSA (depending on the heads & all), since he'd be at upper RPM most of the time? Would idle better too, if he needs to sound stock.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
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Re: Cam for road racing Honestly, since you'd like to be able to have the car run on stock programming, I think that I'd go with the TR 220. May take the 'puter a little while to learn the cam (on stock programming), but it's a hell of a lot bigger than the stock cam. Sure, you'd be giving up some top end power to the TR 224, but gaining drivability (again, on stock programming) in return.
Oh, and Mitch is right- that GM road race cam is one nasty mother. Look at the duration and lobe sep... we're talking LOTS of overlap here. I'd look for a NASTY idle and GOBS of mid-high range power. Chances of getting that cam to run with the stock programming?? Zero.
<small>[ September 24, 2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: BurnOut ]</small>
Oh, and Mitch is right- that GM road race cam is one nasty mother. Look at the duration and lobe sep... we're talking LOTS of overlap here. I'd look for a NASTY idle and GOBS of mid-high range power. Chances of getting that cam to run with the stock programming?? Zero.
<small>[ September 24, 2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: BurnOut ]</small>
Re: Cam for road racing Wanna hear that big *** cam?
http://www.metricchemical.com/midohio.ram
David Farmer gets wrecked a couple laps in and come in the pits for a while. You can here that bad boy real well ...
http://www.metricchemical.com/midohio.ram
David Farmer gets wrecked a couple laps in and come in the pits for a while. You can here that bad boy real well ...
TECH Resident
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
From: Aurora Il
Re: Cam for road racing What part of the rpm range do road racers spend most their time in? If it`s midrange power then a wider lobe seperation would be desired (116lsa)
That 105lsa cam makes most of it`s power up top.
I would think you`d need some tall 4.30`s + gears with that monster.
<small>[ September 24, 2002, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Dan99Hawk ]</small>
That 105lsa cam makes most of it`s power up top.
I would think you`d need some tall 4.30`s + gears with that monster.
<small>[ September 24, 2002, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Dan99Hawk ]</small>
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 12
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From: Palatine, IL
Re: Cam for road racing MTI T1 221/221 .558/.558 112
TR 220/220 .561/.561 112
I guess I can rule out the third cam since I'll be runing stock programing a couple days around competition. So far I have a vote for each. Since the car car isn't strictly a track car I'm looking for something that's pretty strong from 2800 to 5500. Would I be better off with 114 LSA?
TR 220/220 .561/.561 112
I guess I can rule out the third cam since I'll be runing stock programing a couple days around competition. So far I have a vote for each. Since the car car isn't strictly a track car I'm looking for something that's pretty strong from 2800 to 5500. Would I be better off with 114 LSA?
Re: Cam for road racing </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by winger67:
<strong>MTI T1 221/221 .558/.558 112
TR 220/220 .561/.561 112
I guess I can rule out the third cam since I'll be runing stock programing a couple days around competition. So far I have a vote for each. Since the car car isn't strictly a track car I'm looking for something that's pretty strong from 2800 to 5500. Would I be better off with 114 LSA?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have a good friend witht eh T1 cam and he got it to pass Texas emissions ... but just barely.
He has let me drive it and I will say this that the engine turns on like a light switch at 4500. It's tire hazing on ... very difficult for me to modulate ...
So I ordered the TR 220/561/114, based upon his experience, to help with emissions and tame that light switch a little
<strong>MTI T1 221/221 .558/.558 112
TR 220/220 .561/.561 112
I guess I can rule out the third cam since I'll be runing stock programing a couple days around competition. So far I have a vote for each. Since the car car isn't strictly a track car I'm looking for something that's pretty strong from 2800 to 5500. Would I be better off with 114 LSA?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have a good friend witht eh T1 cam and he got it to pass Texas emissions ... but just barely.
He has let me drive it and I will say this that the engine turns on like a light switch at 4500. It's tire hazing on ... very difficult for me to modulate ...
So I ordered the TR 220/561/114, based upon his experience, to help with emissions and tame that light switch a little
Re: Cam for road racing 112 will bring the power band down a bit vs a 114.
But a 114 will idle better and assuming you drill out the TB idle air hole a bit, might just start up and idle fine.
A 220//114 is pretty forgiving with an M6 car.
I'd say a 222//114 will work okay too, also keep in mind you can get a 22_/114 cam with 2-4 degrees of advance.
But a 114 will idle better and assuming you drill out the TB idle air hole a bit, might just start up and idle fine.
A 220//114 is pretty forgiving with an M6 car.
I'd say a 222//114 will work okay too, also keep in mind you can get a 22_/114 cam with 2-4 degrees of advance.
TECH Resident
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 958
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From: Aurora Il
Re: Cam for road racing </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>112 will bring the power band down a bit vs a 114.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well my 116lsa cam makes most of it`s power downlow and midrange (perfect for the street) that`s why I chose to go with it.
I can`t explain it as good as XTrooper so:
"I believe you have "intake centerline" confused with the "lobe center" aka lobe separation angle. If, by "degreeing the cam," you advance the timing of the cam, you'll get a smaller number intake centerline and this will increase bottom end power. The lobe separation angle of a cam (the number of degrees separating the peak lift point of the exhaust lobe and the peak point of the intake lobe) is ground into the cam and can't be changed. The tighter this angle is (the smaller the number, for example the 112 LSA), the greater the overlap (the time in which both the intake and exhaust valves are open simultaneously), and the HIGHER in the rpm range the power will be made. The opposite is true for a cam with a wider LSA which will have a wider angle (bigger number, the 114 in this case), will have less overlap, and will make better low-end power. "
<strong>112 will bring the power band down a bit vs a 114.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well my 116lsa cam makes most of it`s power downlow and midrange (perfect for the street) that`s why I chose to go with it.
I can`t explain it as good as XTrooper so:
"I believe you have "intake centerline" confused with the "lobe center" aka lobe separation angle. If, by "degreeing the cam," you advance the timing of the cam, you'll get a smaller number intake centerline and this will increase bottom end power. The lobe separation angle of a cam (the number of degrees separating the peak lift point of the exhaust lobe and the peak point of the intake lobe) is ground into the cam and can't be changed. The tighter this angle is (the smaller the number, for example the 112 LSA), the greater the overlap (the time in which both the intake and exhaust valves are open simultaneously), and the HIGHER in the rpm range the power will be made. The opposite is true for a cam with a wider LSA which will have a wider angle (bigger number, the 114 in this case), will have less overlap, and will make better low-end power. "
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Palatine, IL
Re: Cam for road racing Well, it was a toss up between the Thunder and MTI cam. I went with the Thunder 220/112 since they sponsor the f-body.org event and it's always good to talk to Dave once in a while.
Speed Inc. wants $750 and FLP wants $850 for the install in a C5. Anyone recommend anyone else in the Chicagoland NW area?
Larry
Speed Inc. wants $750 and FLP wants $850 for the install in a C5. Anyone recommend anyone else in the Chicagoland NW area?
Larry
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From: Naperville, IL
Re: Cam for road racing </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by winger67:
<strong>
Speed Inc. wants $750 and FLP wants $850 for the install in a C5. Anyone recommend anyone else in the Chicagoland NW area?
Larry</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually... it's $650 for a cam install.
<img border="0" alt="[Z06 Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/z06.gif" />
<strong>
Speed Inc. wants $750 and FLP wants $850 for the install in a C5. Anyone recommend anyone else in the Chicagoland NW area?
Larry</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually... it's $650 for a cam install.
<img border="0" alt="[Z06 Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/z06.gif" />
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 12
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From: Palatine, IL
Re: Cam for road racing </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by FLP:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by winger67:
<strong>
Speed Inc. wants $750 and FLP wants $850 for the install in a C5. Anyone recommend anyone else in the Chicagoland NW area?
Larry</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually... it's $650 for a cam install.
<img border="0" alt="[Z06 Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/z06.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is that with springs and pushrods? I called and that's what they told me. Don't remember who I talked to.
Larry
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by winger67:
<strong>
Speed Inc. wants $750 and FLP wants $850 for the install in a C5. Anyone recommend anyone else in the Chicagoland NW area?
Larry</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually... it's $650 for a cam install.
<img border="0" alt="[Z06 Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/z06.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is that with springs and pushrods? I called and that's what they told me. Don't remember who I talked to.
Larry