Internal Engine experts, Help!
09-26-2002, 08:47 AM
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Internal Engine experts, Help! In the process of replacing the bottom end components of my 346, the builder replaced the cam bearings with aftermarket bearings (childs and albert, I think). When we tried to replace the cam it would not go past the second bearing. We noticed a slight bur on the edge of that bearing and did not want to force it. But we also noted that the bearings didn't seem to be seated all the way on the bottom. The machine shop now says that the entire block has warped because it is aluminum and that is why the cam will not go in. Has anyone had any similar experience with this?
OPINIONS...PLEASE.
Chuck
OPINIONS...PLEASE.
Chuck
09-26-2002, 09:43 AM
#3
Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chuck:
<strong>In the process of replacing the bottom end components of my 346, the builder replaced the cam bearings with aftermarket bearings (childs and albert, I think). When we tried to replace the cam it would not go past the second bearing. We noticed a slight bur on the edge of that bearing and did not want to force it. But we also noted that the bearings didn't seem to be seated all the way on the bottom. The machine shop now says that the entire block has warped because it is aluminum and that is why the cam will not go in. Has anyone had any similar experience with this?
OPINIONS...PLEASE.
Chuck</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well you need to check to see if it is really warped. They could also have put the wrong cam bearings in. I would go to GM and get a set of LS1 replacement cam bearings. That would be the first place I would start.
If someone told me the block was warped, I would want to know how they check it, where they checked it and how far out it was.
How many miles are on this block?
Bret
<strong>In the process of replacing the bottom end components of my 346, the builder replaced the cam bearings with aftermarket bearings (childs and albert, I think). When we tried to replace the cam it would not go past the second bearing. We noticed a slight bur on the edge of that bearing and did not want to force it. But we also noted that the bearings didn't seem to be seated all the way on the bottom. The machine shop now says that the entire block has warped because it is aluminum and that is why the cam will not go in. Has anyone had any similar experience with this?
OPINIONS...PLEASE.
Chuck</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well you need to check to see if it is really warped. They could also have put the wrong cam bearings in. I would go to GM and get a set of LS1 replacement cam bearings. That would be the first place I would start.
If someone told me the block was warped, I would want to know how they check it, where they checked it and how far out it was.
How many miles are on this block?
Bret
09-26-2002, 09:45 AM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! Apparently not. The way the bearings don't seat at the bottom makes me wonder if either they are the wrong bearings or whether they have to be line honed. I have a hard time believing that the block is "warped"...it was cleaned examined and magnafluxed before the install process began. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
09-26-2002, 07:48 PM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! O.K. here is the latest: no one that I can find has ever heard of the LS1 block warping, but, the machine shop remove the bearings, tried several other bearings for that journal and even honed the problem bearing down 10 thousands and the cam still would not clear it. He even took the bearing out altogether and the cam still just barely cleared the journal.
He checked the camshaft to make sure that it was not warped and it was right on the money perfect. This is not a fly by night machine shop. He doesn't have alot of experience with the LS1, but has been building/machining for quite a few years and has an excellent reputation in this area.
As far as I can tell, this is a first for the LS1.
If anyone has any thoughts on this, please share them. This is a new problem for our engines and maybe collectively we can figure this out.
Thanks for your help.
Chuck
He checked the camshaft to make sure that it was not warped and it was right on the money perfect. This is not a fly by night machine shop. He doesn't have alot of experience with the LS1, but has been building/machining for quite a few years and has an excellent reputation in this area.
As far as I can tell, this is a first for the LS1.
If anyone has any thoughts on this, please share them. This is a new problem for our engines and maybe collectively we can figure this out.
Thanks for your help.
Chuck
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09-26-2002, 08:20 PM
#8
Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! Man I'm sorry to hear that Chuck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> I hope you can get it straightened out for our day at MIR on Oct. 25th. Damn sure want to be there when that 346 ci goes into the 9's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> Good luck.
Bruce
Bruce
09-26-2002, 09:50 PM
#10
Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! what cam is it? is it a aftermarket cam?
That's the next question.
If you can take the cam out the block it's not warped.
They probably put the cam bearings in wrong or in the wrong holes
Bret
<small>[ September 26, 2002, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: SStrokerAce ]</small>
That's the next question.
If you can take the cam out the block it's not warped.
They probably put the cam bearings in wrong or in the wrong holes
Bret
<small>[ September 26, 2002, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: SStrokerAce ]</small>
09-27-2002, 12:59 AM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! The block is not warped! I have built a lot of LS1's and have seen alot of them going together and have never seen one where the block has warped so bad that the cam wouldn't fit. Most likely they put the wrong bearings in or the have one of your bearings cocked, causing the cam not to go in all the way. I would check those two things first.
Chris Gelineau
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Chris Gelineau
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09-27-2002, 07:59 AM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! Bret,
That's what is so confusing. This is a Thunder after market cam. We took the cam and everything out of the block which still had the stock bearings. After the block was cleaned magnafluxed honed and the new pistons and bearings put in, we picked up the motor and proceeded to install the remaining components. When we tried to reinstall the same cam that came out, it would not go past the 3rd journal (I think I said it was the 2nd earlier). The first thought was a problem with the new cam bearings, but even after changing the bearings and even honing them down, the cam still won't go in. It's like there is an alighnment problem between the 2nd and third journals.
Could something have happened to the block during the cleaning process to have warped it?
Chuck
That's what is so confusing. This is a Thunder after market cam. We took the cam and everything out of the block which still had the stock bearings. After the block was cleaned magnafluxed honed and the new pistons and bearings put in, we picked up the motor and proceeded to install the remaining components. When we tried to reinstall the same cam that came out, it would not go past the 3rd journal (I think I said it was the 2nd earlier). The first thought was a problem with the new cam bearings, but even after changing the bearings and even honing them down, the cam still won't go in. It's like there is an alighnment problem between the 2nd and third journals.
Could something have happened to the block during the cleaning process to have warped it?
Chuck
09-27-2002, 08:12 AM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! Chuck,
If the block had an issue involving the concentricity of the cam journals, your cam bearings and cam would have been destroyed before this. The fact that the cam came out of the block says that there was not an issue before. I don't think you are getting the whole story. Have them pull all the bearings and have another look. Give me a call if need be.
Mikey
If the block had an issue involving the concentricity of the cam journals, your cam bearings and cam would have been destroyed before this. The fact that the cam came out of the block says that there was not an issue before. I don't think you are getting the whole story. Have them pull all the bearings and have another look. Give me a call if need be.
Mikey
09-27-2002, 08:37 PM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! Mikey,
the machine shop sez that the cam shaft probably honed the cam bearings to it's own dimensions at that the bearings that came out had areas where they were copper colored in appearance.
Wish I had those stock cam bearings back.
Chuck
the machine shop sez that the cam shaft probably honed the cam bearings to it's own dimensions at that the bearings that came out had areas where they were copper colored in appearance.
Wish I had those stock cam bearings back.
Chuck
09-27-2002, 10:39 PM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SStrokerAce:
<strong>I'm with Mikey, still.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not disagreeing with Mikey, i'm just stating what the machine shop's explanation was for the cam coming out of the block, but not going back in. I'm still totally confused by this.
Chuck
<strong>I'm with Mikey, still.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not disagreeing with Mikey, i'm just stating what the machine shop's explanation was for the cam coming out of the block, but not going back in. I'm still totally confused by this.
Chuck
09-27-2002, 11:02 PM
#17
Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chuck:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SStrokerAce:
<strong>I'm with Mikey, still.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not disagreeing with Mikey, i'm just stating what the machine shop's explanation was for the cam coming out of the block, but not going back in. I'm still totally confused by this.
Chuck</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">cant they mic the holes with and or without the bearing in the block? cant they test the straigtness of the block in that area?
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SStrokerAce:
<strong>I'm with Mikey, still.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not disagreeing with Mikey, i'm just stating what the machine shop's explanation was for the cam coming out of the block, but not going back in. I'm still totally confused by this.
Chuck</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">cant they mic the holes with and or without the bearing in the block? cant they test the straigtness of the block in that area?
09-28-2002, 04:09 AM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! I am curious as to what gets magna fluxed when working with the LS1 block? Is it the sleeves? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
<small>[ September 28, 2002, 04:10 AM: Message edited by: LS171Malibu ]</small>
<small>[ September 28, 2002, 04:10 AM: Message edited by: LS171Malibu ]</small>
09-28-2002, 09:37 AM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS171Malibu:
<strong>I am curious as to what gets magna fluxed when working with the LS1 block? Is it the sleeves? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My understanding is that the entire block is magnafluxed.
I don't know how or if it is possible to check for alignment of the cam journals.
The current plan is to install five oversize cam bearings and hone them to the right size and alignment. Man this is getting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> frustrating. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
<strong>I am curious as to what gets magna fluxed when working with the LS1 block? Is it the sleeves? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My understanding is that the entire block is magnafluxed.
I don't know how or if it is possible to check for alignment of the cam journals.
The current plan is to install five oversize cam bearings and hone them to the right size and alignment. Man this is getting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> frustrating. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
09-28-2002, 02:16 PM
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Re: Internal Engine experts, Help! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BudmanY2KTA:
<strong>How do you magnaflux aluminum? Do you have your crankshaft install and torqued to spec? If not maybe that will cause your problem.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Kinda what I was getting at, non-ferrus metals can not be magnafluxed, maybe they used dye-penatrant to check for cracks.
<strong>How do you magnaflux aluminum? Do you have your crankshaft install and torqued to spec? If not maybe that will cause your problem.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Kinda what I was getting at, non-ferrus metals can not be magnafluxed, maybe they used dye-penatrant to check for cracks.