TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley
10-11-2002, 07:03 PM
#1
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TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley [QUOTE:]
While it is generally true that you get what you pay for, sometimes you pay too much for what you get. If a TEA head is fully CNC ported, competition valve job performed, valve job hand blended, cut for dual springs, milled to desired chamber volume, flowed on computerized flow bench, professionally assembled with new Ferrea valves, Comp Cams dual springs, Comp Cams titanium retainers, Comp Cams spring cups, new GM seals and locks for $1795 how can you go wrong? Of course I'm baised, I own the place.
_____________________________________________
This quote was from a very previous post made by Brian @ TEA, so I thought I might bring it back to light. In contrast to the majority of the LS1 head porting services offered, that $1795 price is very reasonable. VERY resonable to say the least!
As good as the pricing is, I got an even better one (I feel) based on a slightly different head arrangment. I wanted an actual price breakdown for the labor and parts I felt I wanted in a set of heads. Not a "generic Stage 1 or Stage 2 setup". I recieved this info a few months ago from TEA (itemized):
CNC Fully Machine Port 5.7 Cyl. Heads $600
Valves, Stainless High Flow (Ferrea 2.02”/1.57”) $240
Valve Retainers, (Use my stock ones) $0
Valve Job (4 angle on intake/3 angle on exhaust) $125
Valve Springs (Comp Cams 918 Ovate Wire) $150
Valve Guide Seals (Viton) $20
Resurface/Mill Heads (.030”) $75
Fully Assemble Heads $50
Flow Heads/Provide Flow sheet $50
Total Price $1,310 + Shipping + Refundable Core
As far as the porting procedure: TEA stated that they use the same CNC porting program for all there various 5.7L LS1 “Stage” heads. Only valve size and type varies between “Stages” of headwork.
I haven't purchased a set heads yet, and I don't know if these prices are still valid, but the price sure was great when I got this itemized quote!
Ron,
_____________________________________________
<small>[ October 14, 2002, 04:39 AM: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</small>
While it is generally true that you get what you pay for, sometimes you pay too much for what you get. If a TEA head is fully CNC ported, competition valve job performed, valve job hand blended, cut for dual springs, milled to desired chamber volume, flowed on computerized flow bench, professionally assembled with new Ferrea valves, Comp Cams dual springs, Comp Cams titanium retainers, Comp Cams spring cups, new GM seals and locks for $1795 how can you go wrong? Of course I'm baised, I own the place.
_____________________________________________
This quote was from a very previous post made by Brian @ TEA, so I thought I might bring it back to light. In contrast to the majority of the LS1 head porting services offered, that $1795 price is very reasonable. VERY resonable to say the least!
As good as the pricing is, I got an even better one (I feel) based on a slightly different head arrangment. I wanted an actual price breakdown for the labor and parts I felt I wanted in a set of heads. Not a "generic Stage 1 or Stage 2 setup". I recieved this info a few months ago from TEA (itemized):
CNC Fully Machine Port 5.7 Cyl. Heads $600
Valves, Stainless High Flow (Ferrea 2.02”/1.57”) $240
Valve Retainers, (Use my stock ones) $0
Valve Job (4 angle on intake/3 angle on exhaust) $125
Valve Springs (Comp Cams 918 Ovate Wire) $150
Valve Guide Seals (Viton) $20
Resurface/Mill Heads (.030”) $75
Fully Assemble Heads $50
Flow Heads/Provide Flow sheet $50
Total Price $1,310 + Shipping + Refundable Core
As far as the porting procedure: TEA stated that they use the same CNC porting program for all there various 5.7L LS1 “Stage” heads. Only valve size and type varies between “Stages” of headwork.
I haven't purchased a set heads yet, and I don't know if these prices are still valid, but the price sure was great when I got this itemized quote!
Ron,
_____________________________________________
<small>[ October 14, 2002, 04:39 AM: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</small>
10-11-2002, 07:13 PM
#2
Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley That's a really good price.
TEA has the best DEAL in LS1 heads no doubt. They don't have the ultimate head however, but that CNC machining price is SICK! $600 that's really good.
I don't agree with having the same port for every thing. Different stages and valve sizes should be different ports.
Bret
TEA has the best DEAL in LS1 heads no doubt. They don't have the ultimate head however, but that CNC machining price is SICK! $600 that's really good.
I don't agree with having the same port for every thing. Different stages and valve sizes should be different ports.
Bret
10-11-2002, 07:21 PM
#3
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley Ron those are a great deal, but cnc port would usually include valve job so your price is $725.Thats still a great price, do you have flow info on those heads? I thought someone posted them for TEA heads on here somewhere.
10-11-2002, 07:34 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley Bret...
I can't say for [absolute] assurity that the port is the same for all Stages, and I don't work for TEA, but, that is what I was told over the phone by TEA.
You know, if you think about it, the CNC machine don't care how much work it's doing or what program is running the machine. Why not charge a one set price for CNC porting? Make that one CNC program the best, and then use it for all your heads.
Now, if someone wants larger valves than 2.02/1.57 that requires new valve seats and the associated macchine work, sure, you need to charge more.
I never did really understand all this "Stage 1 vs Stage 2 crap anyway!
Let the CNC machine do its best work on all your heads, and then, if requested, charge more for big valves and the associated extra expense.
Of course for hand ported heads, this rational will not work. The more hand porting that is done, the more you will pay.
Make sense?
Again, I was told by TEA that the same porting program is used on all there 5.7 LS1 heads.
Ron,
I can't say for [absolute] assurity that the port is the same for all Stages, and I don't work for TEA, but, that is what I was told over the phone by TEA.
You know, if you think about it, the CNC machine don't care how much work it's doing or what program is running the machine. Why not charge a one set price for CNC porting? Make that one CNC program the best, and then use it for all your heads.
Now, if someone wants larger valves than 2.02/1.57 that requires new valve seats and the associated macchine work, sure, you need to charge more.
I never did really understand all this "Stage 1 vs Stage 2 crap anyway!
Let the CNC machine do its best work on all your heads, and then, if requested, charge more for big valves and the associated extra expense.
Of course for hand ported heads, this rational will not work. The more hand porting that is done, the more you will pay.
Make sense?
Again, I was told by TEA that the same porting program is used on all there 5.7 LS1 heads.
Ron,
10-11-2002, 07:39 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley I got my 5.3s done...
cost...I'll try to get it right..I looked for sale items, and I'm sure some can be bought even better!! I collected the parts and disassembled and reassembled myself..Letting them do ALL is a great deal for the average person:
core 5.3 $300
manley valves $220
springs $150
port $600
mill .005 $50 (think)
valve blend and job $125
tit. retainers $150
freights +- $60 for all
$1655 total outright...I think its a great deal and can still sell my heads or keep em?
Also I know exactly what went on...TEA is great.
I'll let you know how it runs, when it stops raining, so we can get to the track <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<small>[ October 11, 2002, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: dand35th ]</small>
cost...I'll try to get it right..I looked for sale items, and I'm sure some can be bought even better!! I collected the parts and disassembled and reassembled myself..Letting them do ALL is a great deal for the average person:
core 5.3 $300
manley valves $220
springs $150
port $600
mill .005 $50 (think)
valve blend and job $125
tit. retainers $150
freights +- $60 for all
$1655 total outright...I think its a great deal and can still sell my heads or keep em?
Also I know exactly what went on...TEA is great.
I'll let you know how it runs, when it stops raining, so we can get to the track <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<small>[ October 11, 2002, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: dand35th ]</small>
10-11-2002, 07:47 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley dand35th ....
Yup, and if you look at it slightly differently;
Had you sent them a set of 5.3 heads, you would not have paid a $300 core charge.
That's price then becomes $1,355
Just about what I was quoted over the phone (above) for the 5.7 headwork I questioned them about.
Yup, and if you look at it slightly differently;
Had you sent them a set of 5.3 heads, you would not have paid a $300 core charge.
That's price then becomes $1,355
Just about what I was quoted over the phone (above) for the 5.7 headwork I questioned them about.
10-11-2002, 07:51 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley Ron, my explanation for "stages" is valve sizes and amount of work used to gain different degrees of flow. It really should be viewed as a way of describing heads intended use, for instance a stage 3 head has no business on a 346" with near stock cam, and stock gearing etc. Big flow gains could lose performance if port volume (rpm range)used to get flow, doesnt have matching components of car. Make sense?
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10-11-2002, 07:58 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley I'm most likely putting my downpayment on TEA S2 5.3L heads monday.
I just can't justify spending the kind of money for GTP or ARE or MTI....
The CNC machineing is nice also... Maybe it's just because I'm in the computer business... but I like the idea of a program/computer doing my machining... that means the set of heads I buy will be almost the same as the set before me and after me...
I just can't justify spending the kind of money for GTP or ARE or MTI....
The CNC machineing is nice also... Maybe it's just because I'm in the computer business... but I like the idea of a program/computer doing my machining... that means the set of heads I buy will be almost the same as the set before me and after me...
10-11-2002, 07:59 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley Thats what I meant..about being able to sell the 5.7s as well...I wanted the 5.3's for compression and the little extra bit better flow capability...Bye the way the cnc program is different for the 5.3s and they also machine the combustion chamber.
10-11-2002, 08:06 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1derfull:
<strong>Ron, my explanation for "stages" is valve sizes and amount of work used to gain different degrees of flow. It really should be viewed as a way of describing heads intended use, for instance a stage 3 head has no business on a 346" with near stock cam, and stock gearing etc. Big flow gains could lose performance if port volume (rpm range)used to get flow, doesnt have matching components of car. Make sense?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That does make sense... perfect sense as a matter of fact
I just feel this whole "Stage" label all these companies are using is just in name only. There is no standardization between any of them. One companies Stage 1 head uses the same valve size as another companies Stage 2. None are the same. Thats why I pay no attention to this play on words.
People really need to look at what they are getting, no matter what Stage "the company" calls it. Your right, you certainly don't need to put a hogged out set of BIG BIG valve heads on a stock displacement LS1. Again, I just feel this whole "Stage" business has been a little overworked.
<strong>Ron, my explanation for "stages" is valve sizes and amount of work used to gain different degrees of flow. It really should be viewed as a way of describing heads intended use, for instance a stage 3 head has no business on a 346" with near stock cam, and stock gearing etc. Big flow gains could lose performance if port volume (rpm range)used to get flow, doesnt have matching components of car. Make sense?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That does make sense... perfect sense as a matter of fact
I just feel this whole "Stage" label all these companies are using is just in name only. There is no standardization between any of them. One companies Stage 1 head uses the same valve size as another companies Stage 2. None are the same. Thats why I pay no attention to this play on words.
People really need to look at what they are getting, no matter what Stage "the company" calls it. Your right, you certainly don't need to put a hogged out set of BIG BIG valve heads on a stock displacement LS1. Again, I just feel this whole "Stage" business has been a little overworked.
10-11-2002, 08:10 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by dand35th:
<strong>Thats what I meant..about being able to sell the 5.7s as well...I wanted the 5.3's for compression and the little extra bit better flow capability...Bye the way the cnc program is different for the 5.3s and they also machine the combustion chamber.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Im sure the CNC program is different for 5.3 vs 5.7 heads, no doubt. In fact, I would bet there is a different program for the 6.0 heads too.
What I said was TEA told me they use the same CNC program for all there [5.7] heads. Stage 1 vs Stage 2
<strong>Thats what I meant..about being able to sell the 5.7s as well...I wanted the 5.3's for compression and the little extra bit better flow capability...Bye the way the cnc program is different for the 5.3s and they also machine the combustion chamber.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Im sure the CNC program is different for 5.3 vs 5.7 heads, no doubt. In fact, I would bet there is a different program for the 6.0 heads too.
What I said was TEA told me they use the same CNC program for all there [5.7] heads. Stage 1 vs Stage 2
10-11-2002, 08:15 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley TEA heads dollar to hp are the best deal out there.paid 1547.00 stage two heads.I ALSO BELIVE JPR PUTS OUT ANOTHER GOOD DOOLAR PER HP HEAD.Its all what someone is looking for,purpose built car I MIGHT MAYBE MIGHT try another head porter.but for a street car TEA heads are hard to beat.
10-11-2002, 08:29 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley pepto...
Thats the way I feel. I am still in Korea, so I still have not purchased heads. I have talked to Joe Prince more than once on the phone from over here, and I believe he is a real "stand-up" guy and ports a very great set of heads for a resonable cost. Another big plus (at least to me) is he participates a great deal to this message board.
Like I said, I still have not bought anyone's LS1 heads yet, but its a tossup between JPR and TEA for me. Hey, if cost was absolutly no consideration, I may look at other options (MTI, etc), but its hard to beat TEA and JPR prices right now for quality work.
Just my opinion (and boy, don't we all have them) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Ron Larson,
Thats the way I feel. I am still in Korea, so I still have not purchased heads. I have talked to Joe Prince more than once on the phone from over here, and I believe he is a real "stand-up" guy and ports a very great set of heads for a resonable cost. Another big plus (at least to me) is he participates a great deal to this message board.
Like I said, I still have not bought anyone's LS1 heads yet, but its a tossup between JPR and TEA for me. Hey, if cost was absolutly no consideration, I may look at other options (MTI, etc), but its hard to beat TEA and JPR prices right now for quality work.
Just my opinion (and boy, don't we all have them) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Ron Larson,
10-11-2002, 08:37 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley ... i still dont understand why it cost so much to have heads done,a machine cant bitch about the labor its doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> the machine as prolly paid for itself a few times over,,LS1 heads are not the magic heads (alltho they are sweet) it doesnt cost that much to have SBC heads opened up and milled a little...im sure that im not thinking about a few details but i still dont think its worh thousands of dollars for this stuff
heads cores cost 2-300 bux you pay 1700 for a MACHINE ported set.
LS1 edit 550. WTF 200 and they would sell MUCH MORE. why do you think vendors are charging less now for tunning?!?!
cams- 400 bux? why? its not "new" technology anymore so why are we duped into "well its an LS1" what ever, END SOAP BOX.....
im not flaming anyone/ or vendors here im just curious as to why i/we pay so much for somthing that cost CONSIDERABLY less to make/build/do....
<small>[ October 11, 2002, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Grinch ]</small>
heads cores cost 2-300 bux you pay 1700 for a MACHINE ported set.
LS1 edit 550. WTF 200 and they would sell MUCH MORE. why do you think vendors are charging less now for tunning?!?!
cams- 400 bux? why? its not "new" technology anymore so why are we duped into "well its an LS1" what ever, END SOAP BOX.....
im not flaming anyone/ or vendors here im just curious as to why i/we pay so much for somthing that cost CONSIDERABLY less to make/build/do....
<small>[ October 11, 2002, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Grinch ]</small>
10-11-2002, 08:49 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley Well the machining part....a cnc machine can be what $20000-150000+ !! It also takes a few hours to go throught the process...meaning $$$ for time..also the programming of the machine to do the work... The cam costs??? They are billet steel right..more $$$ who knows...Stuff that is real popular NOW is what will always cost more..
SBC's are sooo popular and many many competetive shops, that they have to price down. Hope this helps a little..
SBC's are sooo popular and many many competetive shops, that they have to price down. Hope this helps a little..
10-11-2002, 08:52 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley i undersatnd about "paying for time" and paying for the stuff used but cmon there has to be a point where you say "hey WTF" i dont think im alone on this but i might be
10-11-2002, 09:03 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley I do agree 100%... But as long as WE keep paying then thats that....I don't think you'll get everyone to stop buying!!! I would if it only lasted what...a day.....I need more power <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> always and NOW
10-11-2002, 09:03 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Grinch:
<strong>... i still dont understand why it cost so much to have heads done,a machine cant bitch about the labor its doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> the machine as prolly paid for itself a few times over,,LS1 heads are not the magic heads (alltho they are sweet) it doesnt cost that much to have SBC heads opened up and milled a little...im sure that im not thinking about a few details but i still dont think its worh thousands of dollars for this stuff
heads cores cost 2-300 bux you pay 1700 for a MACHINE ported set.
LS1 edit 550. WTF 200 and they would sell MUCH MORE. why do you think vendors are charging less now for tunning?!?!
cams- 400 bux? why? its not "new" technology anymore so why are we duped into "well its an LS1" what ever, END SOAP BOX.....
im not flaming anyone/ or vendors here im just curious as to why i/we pay so much for somthing that cost CONSIDERABLY less to make/build/do....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">why are prices so high? Because they can be.... basic supply and demand....
Why do people start businesses? To make money
Who makes the most money? Those that can advertise the most, and make the best numbers...
In the case of TEA... they're the cheapest best producing numbers heads around... They have more than a CNC machine... id guess that business expenses (machining equipment) is probably several hundred thousand... why is equipment so expensive? R&D....
why are cams so expensive for LS1s? new engine design... and mostly because people will pay...
I'm new to LS1s and car performance but I'm pretty well versed in business... you base your prices on the main contendors.... if you make a good product at a lesser price, people flock to you despite the pricing being high .... so I blame GTP, MTI, ARE for the expensive head prices....
Think about it.. if you had the ability (skill) and the money (business) to start a machine shop.... and you could port heads great... and everyone else is charging 2500 bux... and you only charge 1800 ... you look like the good guy
Only way to lower pricing is to stop buying... and if that happens, civics may be able to take us given 30 car lengths... so a stop of buying will never happen
<small>[ October 11, 2002, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: horist ]</small>
<strong>... i still dont understand why it cost so much to have heads done,a machine cant bitch about the labor its doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> the machine as prolly paid for itself a few times over,,LS1 heads are not the magic heads (alltho they are sweet) it doesnt cost that much to have SBC heads opened up and milled a little...im sure that im not thinking about a few details but i still dont think its worh thousands of dollars for this stuff
heads cores cost 2-300 bux you pay 1700 for a MACHINE ported set.
LS1 edit 550. WTF 200 and they would sell MUCH MORE. why do you think vendors are charging less now for tunning?!?!
cams- 400 bux? why? its not "new" technology anymore so why are we duped into "well its an LS1" what ever, END SOAP BOX.....
im not flaming anyone/ or vendors here im just curious as to why i/we pay so much for somthing that cost CONSIDERABLY less to make/build/do....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">why are prices so high? Because they can be.... basic supply and demand....
Why do people start businesses? To make money
Who makes the most money? Those that can advertise the most, and make the best numbers...
In the case of TEA... they're the cheapest best producing numbers heads around... They have more than a CNC machine... id guess that business expenses (machining equipment) is probably several hundred thousand... why is equipment so expensive? R&D....
why are cams so expensive for LS1s? new engine design... and mostly because people will pay...
I'm new to LS1s and car performance but I'm pretty well versed in business... you base your prices on the main contendors.... if you make a good product at a lesser price, people flock to you despite the pricing being high .... so I blame GTP, MTI, ARE for the expensive head prices....
Think about it.. if you had the ability (skill) and the money (business) to start a machine shop.... and you could port heads great... and everyone else is charging 2500 bux... and you only charge 1800 ... you look like the good guy
Only way to lower pricing is to stop buying... and if that happens, civics may be able to take us given 30 car lengths... so a stop of buying will never happen
<small>[ October 11, 2002, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: horist ]</small>
10-11-2002, 09:23 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley I think TEA is the good guy for dual spring CNC'd LS1 heads. I can't find my flow numbers right now but my 5.3's flowed 303 on intake and 240+ on exhaust.
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10-11-2002, 09:30 PM
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Re: TEA Head Pricing > with quote from Brian Tooley i wasnt suggesting to stop buying, hell i cant even do that, i just dont know about bussiness i guess, it just seems a little out there, to me, if you can sell 50 cams for 400 a peice(20,000k)
but if you sold 150 cams for 200(30,000k)im not the smartest man but id go for the 30k if it were me...
bet yall never thought about it that way
cam maker charges say 150 (ballpark)
vender charges 400
they make 250 on you(almost double there investment)how many cams(just an example product) do you think are sold buy "X" vendor?
500(cams)x400.00=200,000.00 - their investment of 75000 =125,000.00 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
we are being raped cuz we have no choice and the standard of the price has been set by what we/ the buyers are willing to pay. maybe a vendor will chime in and help on some insight but i dought we get anything but a price justification answer....
ill be quiet now im just in a bad mood..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" />
but if you sold 150 cams for 200(30,000k)im not the smartest man but id go for the 30k if it were me...
bet yall never thought about it that way
cam maker charges say 150 (ballpark)
vender charges 400
they make 250 on you(almost double there investment)how many cams(just an example product) do you think are sold buy "X" vendor?
500(cams)x400.00=200,000.00 - their investment of 75000 =125,000.00 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
we are being raped cuz we have no choice and the standard of the price has been set by what we/ the buyers are willing to pay. maybe a vendor will chime in and help on some insight but i dought we get anything but a price justification answer....
ill be quiet now im just in a bad mood..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" />