Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads
10-19-2002, 09:14 PM
#1
Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads First off, I am not at all well versed on flow numbers or techniques.
I recently recieved my TEA heads and the flow sheet stated the following at 0.6000 lift
intake exhaust
304.4 263.9
Now, here is my concern. My buddy at the local speed shop looked at them and said, " you'd be lucky if these heads flowed 270 wide open". I said well then have them flow benched. Took them to the local head Guru and have them Flow benched on a flow Pro 600 bench. The guy say's he does not have all the eqipment needed and could only test them wide open. The results wide open.
intake exhaust
280 200
This is a huge difference in flow numbers when compared to my flow sheet for the heads. I don't know if wide open is equal to 0.6000 lift so I don't know if it is a fair comparison. My friend at the speed shop has been in the bussiness for years and has all the LS1 heads done buy a local guy so he has seen many ported heads. For him to just look at these and warn me the way he did makes me wonder. Please chime in with some helpful info on flow benches and processes and why possibly the large difference in numbers. DO NOT chime in with ignorance ie you should have bought this head or that head. All useful info would be greatly appreciated.
topfig
MGySGT USMC
I recently recieved my TEA heads and the flow sheet stated the following at 0.6000 lift
intake exhaust
304.4 263.9
Now, here is my concern. My buddy at the local speed shop looked at them and said, " you'd be lucky if these heads flowed 270 wide open". I said well then have them flow benched. Took them to the local head Guru and have them Flow benched on a flow Pro 600 bench. The guy say's he does not have all the eqipment needed and could only test them wide open. The results wide open.
intake exhaust
280 200
This is a huge difference in flow numbers when compared to my flow sheet for the heads. I don't know if wide open is equal to 0.6000 lift so I don't know if it is a fair comparison. My friend at the speed shop has been in the bussiness for years and has all the LS1 heads done buy a local guy so he has seen many ported heads. For him to just look at these and warn me the way he did makes me wonder. Please chime in with some helpful info on flow benches and processes and why possibly the large difference in numbers. DO NOT chime in with ignorance ie you should have bought this head or that head. All useful info would be greatly appreciated.
topfig
MGySGT USMC
10-19-2002, 10:06 PM
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Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads I am not by ay means an expert but I will say what I can.
1-no two flow benches will be the same
2-I have no idea what your guy means by wide open
3-ask him how the local ported heads flow "wide open"
For any meaningful comparo he should flow yours and local set at common lifts.Ie,100-200-300-400-500-550-600.
Good luck with your new set up and a big thanks for serving our country.
<small>[ October 19, 2002, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: jfm ]</small>
1-no two flow benches will be the same
2-I have no idea what your guy means by wide open
3-ask him how the local ported heads flow "wide open"
For any meaningful comparo he should flow yours and local set at common lifts.Ie,100-200-300-400-500-550-600.
Good luck with your new set up and a big thanks for serving our country.
<small>[ October 19, 2002, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: jfm ]</small>
10-19-2002, 10:48 PM
#4
Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads What the other guys said are true, you have to find out what fixture he is using to align the head on the bench, what intake radius was used, clay or something else, we always flow exhaust with a pipe, did he take the valves out of the head and call that wide open, if so run the other way. The head needs to be flowed every .100" intake and exhaust by someone who knows what they are doing. The intake does lose airflow after ,600" lift, so if they flowed it at .700 or .800 then it is irrelavent. Bottom line is more the 50% of our costumers that have their heads flowed show more flow then the sheet we sent or within 1%. Some of the others are dealing with people that don't know how to use a flow bench and a rare few actually have a bench that is as much as 10% off. We once sent a 365 cfm TWR SBF head to a guy and he had it flowed and it went 335 cfm, I called the guy and he had everything right, I was perplexed, I finally asked what was the highest flowing SBF head he ever had on his bench and he said it went 335 cfm and a Winston Cup Yates head on his bench only flows 320cfm (which is 350 cfm on anyone elses bench)so I said your bench is low then right? and he said yes. I asked what he thought about the head and he said it was killer but it still didn't flow as mauch as we said. DA. So its all relative. I can understand you doubting the flow if the heads were hand ported, but they are CNC'ed and we only have one program for each different type of head. The flowbench is fully computerized and we don't play games, if it doesn't flow it goes back. Keep me posted Brian at TEA
10-19-2002, 10:56 PM
#5
Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads Thanks for the info and kind words guy's and thank you Brian for chiming in. The heads are going on no matter what. I just could not understand the spread in numbers and when I don't fully understand something that has to do with my TA I get my answers here on LS1tech. I'm certain that the dyno and track numbers will be right where they should be.
topfig
MGySgt USMC
topfig
MGySgt USMC
10-19-2002, 11:04 PM
#6
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Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads Brian...
Thanks for setting the record straight. I was a little worried to say the least when I first read this thread.
Brian, could you send me a copy of your flow numbers (int. & exh.) for a set of TEA 5.7 LS1 heads with the Ferrea 2.02" / 1.57" valves?
Thanks much,
Ron Larson (Korea) turbota@kornet.net
Thanks for setting the record straight. I was a little worried to say the least when I first read this thread.
Brian, could you send me a copy of your flow numbers (int. & exh.) for a set of TEA 5.7 LS1 heads with the Ferrea 2.02" / 1.57" valves?
Thanks much,
Ron Larson (Korea) turbota@kornet.net
10-20-2002, 12:59 AM
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Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by topfig1:
<strong>First off, I am not at all well versed on flow numbers or techniques.
I recently recieved my TEA heads and the flow sheet stated the following at 0.6000 lift
intake exhaust
304.4 263.9
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Relax dude...your heads flowed better on the exhaust side than my TEA heads and barely less on the intake side. Most people will agree that I'm making some decent power through a 12 bolt rear end and not so high 10.8:1 compression. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
.100 72.2 55.0
.200 141.6 105.2
.300 205.6 151.5
.400 254.6 193.4
.500 290.1 231.0
.550 300.4 247.2
.600 306.2 260.4
<strong>First off, I am not at all well versed on flow numbers or techniques.
I recently recieved my TEA heads and the flow sheet stated the following at 0.6000 lift
intake exhaust
304.4 263.9
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Relax dude...your heads flowed better on the exhaust side than my TEA heads and barely less on the intake side. Most people will agree that I'm making some decent power through a 12 bolt rear end and not so high 10.8:1 compression. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
.100 72.2 55.0
.200 141.6 105.2
.300 205.6 151.5
.400 254.6 193.4
.500 290.1 231.0
.550 300.4 247.2
.600 306.2 260.4
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10-20-2002, 02:41 AM
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Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads How the hell are the exhaust numbers so high? Is he flowing them with or without a pipe?
10-20-2002, 09:04 AM
#10
Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by topfig1:
<strong>I pretty sure he flows them with a pipe.
topfig</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are right, they are flowed with a pipe. Your intake and exhaust numbers are a few cfm higher than mine. Put them on they are great heads. See sig for my times first time out with them. Once I get the suspension and 60' times sorted out those numbers are going down <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Car ran 120+ mph trap speed twice and the worst was 119+, with a little old 224 cam. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> You won't be disappointed.
Bruce
<strong>I pretty sure he flows them with a pipe.
topfig</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are right, they are flowed with a pipe. Your intake and exhaust numbers are a few cfm higher than mine. Put them on they are great heads. See sig for my times first time out with them. Once I get the suspension and 60' times sorted out those numbers are going down <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Car ran 120+ mph trap speed twice and the worst was 119+, with a little old 224 cam. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> You won't be disappointed.
Bruce
10-20-2002, 09:22 AM
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Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads Hardtops car scats! Ive seen it in action <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> on street and track...
But if i get heads next year im nore than likely going with TEA. I like there price vs performance and I dont see where any other heads are really any better.
i'd but them and let her rip!
if hardtop gets his 60 down he will easily be low 11's
But if i get heads next year im nore than likely going with TEA. I like there price vs performance and I dont see where any other heads are really any better.
i'd but them and let her rip!
if hardtop gets his 60 down he will easily be low 11's
10-20-2002, 10:15 AM
#13
Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads I have no more time to waste as I have to move to San Diego within the next few weeks and in the interim, the engine needs to get put back together and installed in the car as well as the tranny. I am pretty confident that the heads will work great, I was just caught off guard with those flow numbers and had bring em on here to get some input. Once again, thank you all for you time and info. I LOVE THIS SITE!
topfig
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topfig
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10-20-2002, 07:33 PM
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Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads TEA
I flowed a set of your heads this last weekend for a customer. I am installing these heads on his car. I told him I would have to take them apart, clean them and check everything out before I would install them. Upon tearing them down I noticed the intake ports seemed to be good but the exhaust ports were barelly worked over. I relayed this info to the customer and then flowed the heads. I came up with considerably lower numbers on the exhaust then you had stated. 55 cfm to be exact at .600 lift. The intake was close but about 6-8 cfm down through the range. Could have been the bench. Did you use the bench correction factor when you figured your numbers? I punched your numbers in without the correction factor and came up with the same numbers as you within a cfm. Now back to the exhaust. I have heard you use a pipe. This is good for in house testing but is not the standard that everyone uses. This can change the numbers considerably on some heads. I still don't see how it could be 55 cfm though. The problem is that you are stating real high numbers on the ex that are nothing near what others are getting. This is like false advertisement. I have talked to a few people that have purchased or wanting to purchase your heads because of these numbers. This is not fair to the buyer. I won't go into the quality of your ex port. I will say your heads are a good product for the price. I wouldn't do a set for the price you charge. On the intake side I used a clay radis. If you want to use your exhaust numbers with a pipe you need to give the intake numbers with a intake. And we both know the results of that. Wouldn't sell many heads that way. I am not here to bash you or your product. Like I said, they are good for the price. But you need to fix the way you sell those ex numbers.
Jesse
I flowed a set of your heads this last weekend for a customer. I am installing these heads on his car. I told him I would have to take them apart, clean them and check everything out before I would install them. Upon tearing them down I noticed the intake ports seemed to be good but the exhaust ports were barelly worked over. I relayed this info to the customer and then flowed the heads. I came up with considerably lower numbers on the exhaust then you had stated. 55 cfm to be exact at .600 lift. The intake was close but about 6-8 cfm down through the range. Could have been the bench. Did you use the bench correction factor when you figured your numbers? I punched your numbers in without the correction factor and came up with the same numbers as you within a cfm. Now back to the exhaust. I have heard you use a pipe. This is good for in house testing but is not the standard that everyone uses. This can change the numbers considerably on some heads. I still don't see how it could be 55 cfm though. The problem is that you are stating real high numbers on the ex that are nothing near what others are getting. This is like false advertisement. I have talked to a few people that have purchased or wanting to purchase your heads because of these numbers. This is not fair to the buyer. I won't go into the quality of your ex port. I will say your heads are a good product for the price. I wouldn't do a set for the price you charge. On the intake side I used a clay radis. If you want to use your exhaust numbers with a pipe you need to give the intake numbers with a intake. And we both know the results of that. Wouldn't sell many heads that way. I am not here to bash you or your product. Like I said, they are good for the price. But you need to fix the way you sell those ex numbers.
Jesse
10-20-2002, 10:40 PM
#17
Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads I guess I am missing something here. What difference does it matter if the heads flow different on different benches? Bottom line is the Heads from TEA put down 437rwhp on a car without tuning and 10.8:1 CR. I belive everyone else is using slightly higher compression. If this thread is still alive at the end of this week I'll post some dyno numbers from TEA heads with 11.8:1 CR on pump gas. Everyone gets so caught up in flow numbers and honestly its only half the story. Lets put these heads to work where it counts....THE DRAG STRIP.
Phillip
Phillip
10-20-2002, 10:44 PM
#18
Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads I guess I am missing something here. What difference does it matter if the heads flow different on different benches? Bottom line is the Heads from TEA put down 437rwhp on a car without tuning and 10.8:1 CR. I belive everyone else is using slightly higher compression. If this thread is still alive at the end of this week I'll post some dyno numbers from TEA heads with 11.8:1 CR on pump gas. Everyone gets so caught up in flow numbers and honestly its only half the story. Lets put these heads to work where it counts....THE DRAG STRIP.
Phillip
Phillip
10-20-2002, 11:31 PM
#19
Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by phil97svt:
<strong>I guess I am missing something here. What difference does it matter if the heads flow different on different benches? Bottom line is the Heads from TEA put down 437rwhp on a car without tuning and 10.8:1 CR. I belive everyone else is using slightly higher compression. If this thread is still alive at the end of this week I'll post some dyno numbers from TEA heads with 11.8:1 CR on pump gas. Everyone gets so caught up in flow numbers and honestly its only half the story. Lets put these heads to work where it counts....THE DRAG STRIP.
Phillip</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen Phillip. People get too hung up on flow and dyno numbers. I agree the drag strip is what counts. Once I get my 60'times down I'm sure these heads will get my car down the track quickly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> What are you putting the heads on Phillip? Maybe we can hook up at MIR sometime.
Bruce
<strong>I guess I am missing something here. What difference does it matter if the heads flow different on different benches? Bottom line is the Heads from TEA put down 437rwhp on a car without tuning and 10.8:1 CR. I belive everyone else is using slightly higher compression. If this thread is still alive at the end of this week I'll post some dyno numbers from TEA heads with 11.8:1 CR on pump gas. Everyone gets so caught up in flow numbers and honestly its only half the story. Lets put these heads to work where it counts....THE DRAG STRIP.
Phillip</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen Phillip. People get too hung up on flow and dyno numbers. I agree the drag strip is what counts. Once I get my 60'times down I'm sure these heads will get my car down the track quickly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> What are you putting the heads on Phillip? Maybe we can hook up at MIR sometime.
Bruce
10-20-2002, 11:49 PM
#20
Re: Serious questions& concerns on my TEA heads </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Hardtop:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by phil97svt:
<strong>I guess I am missing something here. What difference does it matter if the heads flow different on different benches? Bottom line is the Heads from TEA put down 437rwhp on a car without tuning and 10.8:1 CR. I belive everyone else is using slightly higher compression. If this thread is still alive at the end of this week I'll post some dyno numbers from TEA heads with 11.8:1 CR on pump gas. Everyone gets so caught up in flow numbers and honestly its only half the story. Lets put these heads to work where it counts....THE DRAG STRIP.
Phillip</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen Phillip. People get too hung up on flow and dyno numbers. I agree the drag strip is what counts. Once I get my 60'times down I'm sure these heads will get my car down the track quickly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> What are you putting the heads on Phillip? Maybe we can hook up at MIR sometime.
Bruce</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruce,
They are on my 99 Vette. I was orginally caught up in the flow numbers game but after I saw verbs lay down 437 untuned on a set of big gears I knew there was more there. I am probably back to the dyno(Tempest Racing in waldorf) to get my setup dialed in via ls1 edit and hit the track again friday. If you ever see me down at MIR on a friday stop by! I have a 1999 Corvette Pewter with 18" CCWs in the front and 17" CCWs with drag radials on the rear. You cant miss my car in the pro street lanes.
Phillip <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by phil97svt:
<strong>I guess I am missing something here. What difference does it matter if the heads flow different on different benches? Bottom line is the Heads from TEA put down 437rwhp on a car without tuning and 10.8:1 CR. I belive everyone else is using slightly higher compression. If this thread is still alive at the end of this week I'll post some dyno numbers from TEA heads with 11.8:1 CR on pump gas. Everyone gets so caught up in flow numbers and honestly its only half the story. Lets put these heads to work where it counts....THE DRAG STRIP.
Phillip</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen Phillip. People get too hung up on flow and dyno numbers. I agree the drag strip is what counts. Once I get my 60'times down I'm sure these heads will get my car down the track quickly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> What are you putting the heads on Phillip? Maybe we can hook up at MIR sometime.
Bruce</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruce,
They are on my 99 Vette. I was orginally caught up in the flow numbers game but after I saw verbs lay down 437 untuned on a set of big gears I knew there was more there. I am probably back to the dyno(Tempest Racing in waldorf) to get my setup dialed in via ls1 edit and hit the track again friday. If you ever see me down at MIR on a friday stop by! I have a 1999 Corvette Pewter with 18" CCWs in the front and 17" CCWs with drag radials on the rear. You cant miss my car in the pro street lanes.
Phillip <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />