UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor
10-20-2002, 10:57 PM
#1
UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor Yup, the motor is screwed fellas. Just got done pulling the passenger side head a few min ago. The driver's side looked ok visually, however the pass. side was a different story. 1 of the 4 on that side is cracked, another has a nice little dip on the edge that rides up the cylinder wall. Needless to say, the motor is phuked...
Looks like P/V clearance was definately the culprit of the problem. Everything else is cosher with the valvetrain. Anyone reading, check piston/valve clearance. Everyone told me I would be fine milling .050 w/ the B1, however I obviously was not. Due to irresponsibility and laziness, I am now buying a new motor because I didn't check. Do not trust other people's judgement, every motor is different. CHECK YOUR OWN ****.....
I have not measured CC's yet, but I am 99% sure the heads were milled correctly. I will snap some pics and email them to one of the guys offering to host them, so everyone can see some of the damaged. On the pass. side head, one of the valves broke in two and the head was sitting in the motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Going to pull the block this week. Then sit down and figure out what I should do. Stock motor? Forged 346? lil 382? We'll see <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Josh
Looks like P/V clearance was definately the culprit of the problem. Everything else is cosher with the valvetrain. Anyone reading, check piston/valve clearance. Everyone told me I would be fine milling .050 w/ the B1, however I obviously was not. Due to irresponsibility and laziness, I am now buying a new motor because I didn't check. Do not trust other people's judgement, every motor is different. CHECK YOUR OWN ****.....
I have not measured CC's yet, but I am 99% sure the heads were milled correctly. I will snap some pics and email them to one of the guys offering to host them, so everyone can see some of the damaged. On the pass. side head, one of the valves broke in two and the head was sitting in the motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Going to pull the block this week. Then sit down and figure out what I should do. Stock motor? Forged 346? lil 382? We'll see <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Josh
10-20-2002, 11:01 PM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
10-20-2002, 11:05 PM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> Damn Josh....very sorry to hear that happened man. I hope you can get everything worked out ASAP. Good luck to you man.
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10-21-2002, 01:22 AM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor Damn, That really sux, but look on the bright side you do get a new motor. Id say go with the 382 stroker. But id still be mad case i just spend money on thoes parts that screwed something up and now have to spend more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
10-21-2002, 03:23 AM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor Thats exactly why I clayed my clearance. When putting on milled heads along with the cam, you just cant be too careful. At the very minimum you should turn the motor over by hand using a wrench!
BTW, since you have some downtime, send that cam off somewhere to be cam-doctor'd. I bet thunder racing would do it for a good price. Then you'll know the exact specs...maybe that was a freak B1 or something.
Sorry to hear your misfortune. <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />
BTW, since you have some downtime, send that cam off somewhere to be cam-doctor'd. I bet thunder racing would do it for a good price. Then you'll know the exact specs...maybe that was a freak B1 or something.
Sorry to hear your misfortune. <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />
10-21-2002, 03:53 AM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor Don't know if you are the first owner of that 98 Camaro or not. If your not the first owner, #1 scenerios will apply.
1. Someone else has had the heads milled before. If so, God only knows how far they are milled now.
2. The shop that milled them screwed up and took alot more off the heads than there telling you.
I will bet my first born that your B1 cam is fairly close to spec. There is just no way that its off enough to cause the problems your having (if the heads are actually milled to .050").
I personally think your walking a fine line with a .050" cut on the heads. Thats just my opinion
Why did you want them milled that far to begin with? I think someone was selling you a line of poor info .....
.035" would have been enough to get you in the area of 10.6 to 10.7 CR
Sorry to here about the problems. I think you can pretty much figure those heads are now trashed. They really have no use to anyone. They [may] work with a stock cam, but no one will ever take that chance.
Good luck,
Ron
1. Someone else has had the heads milled before. If so, God only knows how far they are milled now.
2. The shop that milled them screwed up and took alot more off the heads than there telling you.
I will bet my first born that your B1 cam is fairly close to spec. There is just no way that its off enough to cause the problems your having (if the heads are actually milled to .050").
I personally think your walking a fine line with a .050" cut on the heads. Thats just my opinion
Why did you want them milled that far to begin with? I think someone was selling you a line of poor info .....
.035" would have been enough to get you in the area of 10.6 to 10.7 CR
Sorry to here about the problems. I think you can pretty much figure those heads are now trashed. They really have no use to anyone. They [may] work with a stock cam, but no one will ever take that chance.
Good luck,
Ron
10-21-2002, 07:13 AM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor Damn Josh, sorry to hear that man! Send the pics to me at jackdub@rocketmail.com and I will host them for you..
10-21-2002, 08:59 AM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor that sucks man, good luck with getting it fixed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
Cheers,
Chris
10-21-2002, 09:13 AM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor You milled the heads 0.05" and expected no geometry problems??!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
10-21-2002, 10:20 AM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor what length were your rods? i had my heads milled (hey, it was free). i wanted the most free hp so i went 0.050 too. i ordered a set of 7.35 rods. i checked p/v clearance a total of 3 or 4 times. i tried the stock rods but it was just cutting the clay up. i decided to run the shorter rods. .050 shorter rods with .050 off the heads = stock length on a stock head. i have a comp 224 cam so i dont know how the base circles differ from yours.
10-21-2002, 11:41 AM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor That sucks Josh! The Horsepower Gods think up more and more creative ways to tell us when we need a bigger motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
10-21-2002, 04:20 PM
#19
Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">what caused it? Did you miss a chift? Explain what the engine was doing when it went. Youll get it </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haha! I wish, the car didn't make it out of the garage before this happend. As soon as I cranked it over for the first time, SMACK....Valves married the pistons.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't know if you are the first owner of that 98 Camaro or not. If your not the first owner, #1 scenerios will apply.
1. Someone else has had the heads milled before. If so, God only knows how far they are milled now.
2. The shop that milled them screwed up and took alot more off the heads than there telling you.
I will bet my first born that your B1 cam is fairly close to spec. There is just no way that its off enough to cause the problems your having (if the heads are actually milled to .050").
I personally think your walking a fine line with a .050" cut on the heads. Thats just my opinion
Why did you want them milled that far to begin with? I think someone was selling you a line of poor info .....
.035" would have been enough to get you in the area of 10.6 to 10.7 CR
Sorry to here about the problems. I think you can pretty much figure those heads are now trashed. They really have no use to anyone. They [may] work with a stock cam, but no one will ever take that chance.
Good luck,
Ron</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ron, I now believe my heads were milled incorrectly. The B1 cam is an old school version, probably about 2 yrs old. I am going to have it doctored tomorrow, but I do believe the older B1/T1's speced out to be actually 223-224ish. Why mill .050 you ask? I wanted a max effort cam swap. 11:1+ compression was my goal.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What length pushrods were you using? What was your lifter preload like when those pushrods were installed?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mark, I was running 7.350's. Like a dumbass, I trusted other's judgement and didn't check anything, including preload figures. Definately won't be doing that again <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You milled the heads 0.05" and expected no geometry problems??!!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course I expected geometry to change, but thats also why I asked over 20 experienced people if .050 would work with my setup. Everybody said I was good to go with no worries running my "little" B1 cam and 7.350 rods. Like I said above, I made the mistake of trusting other's judgement when I should have been triple checking anyway.
I have a couple of things in the works right now. Should hopefully have the car on the road within the next couple of weeks. We'll see....
Josh
<small>[ October 21, 2002, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Damian ]</small>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't know if you are the first owner of that 98 Camaro or not. If your not the first owner, #1 scenerios will apply.
1. Someone else has had the heads milled before. If so, God only knows how far they are milled now.
2. The shop that milled them screwed up and took alot more off the heads than there telling you.
I will bet my first born that your B1 cam is fairly close to spec. There is just no way that its off enough to cause the problems your having (if the heads are actually milled to .050").
I personally think your walking a fine line with a .050" cut on the heads. Thats just my opinion
Why did you want them milled that far to begin with? I think someone was selling you a line of poor info .....
.035" would have been enough to get you in the area of 10.6 to 10.7 CR
Sorry to here about the problems. I think you can pretty much figure those heads are now trashed. They really have no use to anyone. They [may] work with a stock cam, but no one will ever take that chance.
Good luck,
Ron</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ron, I now believe my heads were milled incorrectly. The B1 cam is an old school version, probably about 2 yrs old. I am going to have it doctored tomorrow, but I do believe the older B1/T1's speced out to be actually 223-224ish. Why mill .050 you ask? I wanted a max effort cam swap. 11:1+ compression was my goal.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What length pushrods were you using? What was your lifter preload like when those pushrods were installed?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mark, I was running 7.350's. Like a dumbass, I trusted other's judgement and didn't check anything, including preload figures. Definately won't be doing that again <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You milled the heads 0.05" and expected no geometry problems??!!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course I expected geometry to change, but thats also why I asked over 20 experienced people if .050 would work with my setup. Everybody said I was good to go with no worries running my "little" B1 cam and 7.350 rods. Like I said above, I made the mistake of trusting other's judgement when I should have been triple checking anyway.
I have a couple of things in the works right now. Should hopefully have the car on the road within the next couple of weeks. We'll see....
Josh
<small>[ October 21, 2002, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Damian ]</small>
10-21-2002, 05:22 PM
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Re: UPDATE........Valves hitting pistons = Trashed motor do they recommend stock pushrods on untouched heads with that cam? assuming the heads were milled correctly, they really shouldnt have hit cause if you think about it you took off as much off the rods as you did off the heads. hope you figure out what went wrong though.