PREDATOR-Z

For the LOG, read ! That guy made 370/361 CAM ONLY
YOU made 360/34x WITH PORTED HEADS

Your setup was not tuned right, so that graph does not prove anything ! Get it. Had you been tuned right, the 224 undercurve would have been HIGHER that your 230/236
Capiche !!
And that is what the argument is ALL about.
Geeeez

Reject

iTrader: (24)

pred, step back and look at the conversation you have going with him. he's hard headed and isnt going to change, just leave it at that.... some people are hopeless.

the_husk

That sir, is the most idiotic comment ever. Hell, my stock cammed gto with bolt ons will beat my buddies car with a TSP torquer V3 cam. It is called power UNDER the curve for a reason. Big cams ONLY belong on drag cars, or idiotic kids who think they have huge power EVERYWHERE. I myself have seen little cams like the TR 224, 224R, 222/224's, 228Rs, 224/228's DESTROY big cammed cars both at the strip and on the street. As for your posts above about taking out surging and all that, you cannot take ALL surge out, as that is PART of the cams PROFILE. And for raising the idle, do you like pushing through your brakes at a stoplight/stopsign? Sure, you can bump up the idle, but you better hope you have a high stall, or you'll be having fun.

INMY01TA

iTrader: (1)

I don't have ported heads, never have, I'm cam only too. I'm sorry you're all butthurt about that I'm happier with my new, better performing cam. Grow up and deal with it.

INMY01TA

iTrader: (1)

No one has proven me wrong. I doubt a lil tweaking of my afr on the 224 would bring the torque curve up by 20. Please continue your somewhere else thank you.

Reject

iTrader: (24)

how about you stop hijackin this thread, all the posts on this page and last are just you two going back and forth. thank you.

the_husk

Nah, im going back to that one guy on page seven.

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

You can if the camshaft is correct. Weve done camshafts from something like 222 dur range, put something in the 228-230 range and pick up everywhere from 2800 rpm-up, and later after flycutting piston go even larger and maintain or pick up everywhere. From 410 hp to 435 to 460 hp. Last cam made the most torque as well

I tuned both setups, and they were both as optimal as they could be. His 224 cam liked to ping a bit, made max power right where it was. Richer/leaner more or less timing, no more power there. If you say an engine needs xx.x:1 A/F you dont tune engines. You may copy and paste what a/f you may think is correct, but your not tuning. The engine tells you what it wants. With a real load on an engine like it sees on our dyno it MAY just like something other than the 13.0 A/F someone told you was correct. Youd probably think my mid 230s duration cam only setup has 40 hp left in it looking at my a/f graph, its a good bit richer than his. I doubt it seeing as how it traps 126 mph, but who knows?

Maybe there is a small WOT torque tradeoff at 2500 rpm or below or something going larger(I dont usually see that unless it is alot of camshaft even), but if I catch you racing your car at 2500 rpm with any camshaft, Ill beat you in a bolton car!

There is a difference between big dumb camshafts, and camshafts that are pretty healthy but most importantly want the motor wants. I dont see in many cases why some think that they should put a real weeny cam in a car, especially some 6 speed cars. We just put a variant of INMY01TAs cam in a full weight car cept for draglights, M6 and it went 11.18 at 123+ and drives around great. I wouldnt see any reason to go smaller, unless he wanted it to drive around great and go slower. We have 120# girls and 60 year old guys that drive them around every day, I think thats enough driveability test. In short, use what you can to get the job done, make the power you want and maintain driveability you want. Dont worry about the numbers on the cam if you having someone who knows what their doing figure it out. If you have the 224 cam INMY01TA had, and put in what he has, it will make more power everywhere from 2800 rpm up if everything is right. Done it a dozen times. Not telling everyone to go out and buy a Trex for their daily driver, but dotn be scared of a cam just becasue it has 4 or 5 more degrees of duration, or more lift. *IF* camshaft is right its POSSIBLE to make more power everywhere with something larger. Dont say you cant, we do it alot

ZMONSTER Im not sure what your looking at. No where does the 224 cam make mroe power than the larger cam. Not once. It equals it for a couple hundred rpm. Below there and above that it is making substantially less. You cant make "moe area under the curve" making less everywhere.

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

Thats funny right there. He says "no way" followed by "I dont want to see proof I dont believe you no matter what" and then calls someone else juvenile. And he is validated somehow by the fact that the guys scanner is broke or something and is going to use his parents to show you guys something. I guess its more mature to go dig your library card out of your Nancy Drew book and take a nickel to the library and hang out with the 12 year old doign book reports?

I wont argue against PredatorZ, I dont have to he is wrong. We have done this many times, and my post count about camshafts doesnt make me an expert, but the fact that we turn hyd valvetrains 8000 rpm plus, often can gain power everywhere going larger on a cam when some say you cant, and have "cam theory" figured out enough to go 126 mph with less cam and more weight than most doing the same - I have a little tiny bit of knowledge and experience.

Many know lots more though for sure.

The internet makes some people flock to their knowledge gods. The problem is - those may "know" alot, but they may "know" fact or they may "know" fiction and you guys may not be able to discern the difference. IM a young guy at 25, and while I know a good deal about these motor, Im smart enough to know there are no "hard" rules with engines. You cant say this always means this. It dont work. Get over it.

tylerangle1990

Most people don't honestly know much about cam selection they just want something that barely idles and sounds BA even if they can't use any of their power on the street or hardly at all because they run into the Rev limiter...if people would pick smaller cams effectively and the right combinations it would be much more enjoyable, more economical, and it would idle halfway decent in cold weather...but like stated that's obviously not what sells that's my 2 cents on it...since I'm kinda new to LSx motors I can't recommend much stuff yet but I've been around engines my whole life so I can say that much on question about shops always pushing huge cam profiles

BlackNiteWS6

iTrader: (2)

GrannySShifting
Are you a sponsor on this site? It's good to hear you've had a lot of success,
but you basically saying Predator-Z and 99BlancoSS dont know what they are talking about
is a little out of line. They're the 2 of the most respected guys on this site. You can have the best setup in the world but bashing those 2 guys aren't gonna win you LS1tech customers.

BadMonkey

iTrader: (1)

John look what you started. A thread that will not die. Damn you.

Grn4fbody

iTrader: (2)

so whats some pretty good choices to go with to get some good power under the curve?

tylerangle1990

now we're talkin about building real street/strip cars...

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

Not trying to win you as a customer bud, but in this instance they are off base is all. Noy saying they dont know what they are talking about, but what was said to be gospel in this thread just isnt. Have plenty of A - B testing for those interested, others have said they would rather keep their blinders on and ignore same dyno back to back tests.

ZMONSTER!

iTrader: (9)

ZMONSTER Im not sure what your looking at. No where does the 224 cam make mroe power than the larger cam. Not once. It equals it for a couple hundred rpm. Below there and above that it is making substantially less. You cant make "moe area under the curve" making less everywhere.[/QUOTE]


When I first looked at the graph it was on a bad computer screen, looked at it on my wifes computer (brand new) and could actually tell the difference. The hump in the curves had me fooled. Looks odd to me.

GrannySShifting

iTrader: (10)

When you start tightening up lobe centers they tend to start making two torque peaks almost, and a little lull in between sometimes. I thinkt he mnaifold runner length tries to make a torque peak happen in the usual 4800-5300 range you see 99% of every LS1, and the camshaft is "trying" to do something else.

Dont expect your torque curve and someone elses to look the same with diff components

Redlinez

iTrader: (5)

Cams that work great with stock heads don't often work with aftermarket heads, as I'm told. What does your car weigh?

Gun5

iTrader: (37)

450 Rear wheel is attainable without a big god awful cam.. with similiar setups to mine (mine ain't dyno'd yet) i'v seen 440-450... thats 5.3 heads, 228/232 and a LS6 or 90/90 (i got the 92/92)

that's a pretty mild cam still you just gotta piece it together right.. this car was gonna be my Daily but now i got a SVT focus so i guess i coulda went bigger but i think it will be fine

2000_SS

iTrader: (24)

(#'s in sig) i agree, my setup wasn't optimized at all, the cam was already in the car when i bought it and the heads were so cheap i couldn't pass them up, ported the fast90 myself and voila: 452rwhp through a M6/9" and the car idled and drove like stock, just sounded tough as hell