The "recipe" to 500 rwhp with heads and cam.
08-28-2007, 06:08 PM
#222
Originally Posted by Patrick G
I'm not sure who your information source is, but that's not correct. The lobes on my LSK cam had bad heat treatment and started to go flat, but the motor was still healthy enough to make 455 rwhp the day we tore it down. Hardly blown up. In fact, had we not dynoed it before we planned on doing the heads/cam swap, we would have never know about the power loss. It still felt very strong.
Since my motor was down around 20 rwhp from where it was, it was going to be really hard to make 500 rwhp with the heads/cam swap so we decided to have Erik Koenig freshen it up. Same pistons, same rods. Erik installed fresh rings and bearings and meticulously reassembled it. Couldn't have done that to a blown up motor.
Since my motor was down around 20 rwhp from where it was, it was going to be really hard to make 500 rwhp with the heads/cam swap so we decided to have Erik Koenig freshen it up. Same pistons, same rods. Erik installed fresh rings and bearings and meticulously reassembled it. Couldn't have done that to a blown up motor.
08-28-2007, 06:28 PM
#223
Originally Posted by Asmodeus
How bad did they start to go flat? I got my LSK lobed cam shortly after you were posting results about yours. What are the chances of mine having a bad heat treatment as well? It does feel a tad down on power.. I have about 3k miles on my cam.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
08-28-2007, 09:29 PM
#226
There were too many stickies so I consolidated most of the really good threads into one big sticky at the top of this forum. Check it out. 
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
08-29-2007, 12:44 AM
#227
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
There were too many stickies so I consolidated most of the really good threads into one big sticky at the top of this forum. Check it out.
08-29-2007, 06:07 AM
#228
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
There were too many stickies so I consolidated most of the really good threads into one big sticky at the top of this forum. Check it out.
02-16-2008, 10:24 AM
#231
My pistons were .010" out of the hole. With a .041" head gasket, the quench would have been too tight for any further block decking.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
02-17-2008, 03:50 PM
#232
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BTW, nice Jeep! Do you have any plans of building a stroker or a max effort 6.1?
Jason
03-07-2008, 05:28 PM
#235
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As far as the exhaust goes, you guys are forgetting one thing. You mentioned the fluid dynamics portion, but failed to see the forest for the trees per say. With two pipes, you largely increase the surface area the exhaust has to cover. Think of it this way, a short regular garden hose or a two mile 4" pipe, which will flow more water from the same pressure? I know that is not exact, but I think you can see the point. A properly built exhaust system with duals will flow as well, but I am not sure how much it would take with space fitment and such.
Patrick, I have read in the past few months that there are people running grooves in their quench pad to get rid of the detonation. Is that something you have done in the past? Do you have any knowledge of it?
Also, what octane are you running? I saw someone post E85, but I did not ever see what you posted except for "pump gas".
Chris
Patrick, I have read in the past few months that there are people running grooves in their quench pad to get rid of the detonation. Is that something you have done in the past? Do you have any knowledge of it?
Also, what octane are you running? I saw someone post E85, but I did not ever see what you posted except for "pump gas".
Chris
03-07-2008, 09:17 PM
#236
As far as the exhaust goes, you guys are forgetting one thing. You mentioned the fluid dynamics portion, but failed to see the forest for the trees per say. With two pipes, you largely increase the surface area the exhaust has to cover. Think of it this way, a short regular garden hose or a two mile 4" pipe, which will flow more water from the same pressure? I know that is not exact, but I think you can see the point. A properly built exhaust system with duals will flow as well, but I am not sure how much it would take with space fitment and such.
Patrick, I have read in the past few months that there are people running grooves in their quench pad to get rid of the detonation. Is that something you have done in the past? Do you have any knowledge of it?
Also, what octane are you running? I saw someone post E85, but I did not ever see what you posted except for "pump gas".
Chris
Patrick, I have read in the past few months that there are people running grooves in their quench pad to get rid of the detonation. Is that something you have done in the past? Do you have any knowledge of it?
Also, what octane are you running? I saw someone post E85, but I did not ever see what you posted except for "pump gas".
Chris
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
03-08-2008, 07:44 AM
#238
BTW,
This is the best thread I have read on this website so far. Thanks for all the detailed info.
03-08-2008, 07:50 AM
#239
AFR 205s with 57cc chamber:
Lift.........200", .300", .400", .500", .550", .600"
Intake.....158,.. 220,.. 264,.. 285,.. 296,.. 300
Exhaust.. 122,.. 178,.. 217,.. 232,.. N/A,.. 241 (with pipe)
While there's nothing special about the flow numbers at .600", look at the numbers down low. Most unmilled heads flow in the low 140s at .200", the high 190s or low 200s at .300", and high 240s at .400". Since we're trying to maximize airflow within the flow limits of the plastic intake manifold, a gain of 20 cfm at .300" and .400" will show huge hp gains (over 20 rwhp) whereas a flow gain of 20 cfm at .600" will show virtually no gain. Case in point: I used to have AFR 205s and I swapped to AFR small bore 225s. The 225s flowed 20 cfm better at .550", 22cfm better at .600", and 25 cfm better at .650" than my old 205s. Guess what? We gained virtually 0 hp with the swap.
We were even running a .650 lift cam to take advantage of the airflow. Nothing. The moral? Concentrate on getting more airflow within the flow limits of your intake manifold (ie, better flow at low and mid-lifts). Make sure your heads flow big numbers after they're milled.
On a side note, the 205s still retained the standard CNC porting from AFR. No additional material was removed. This meant that the airspeed was very high and throttle response is fantastic. My fuel economy has increased compared to running the AFR 225s.
Lift.........200", .300", .400", .500", .550", .600"
Intake.....158,.. 220,.. 264,.. 285,.. 296,.. 300
Exhaust.. 122,.. 178,.. 217,.. 232,.. N/A,.. 241 (with pipe)
While there's nothing special about the flow numbers at .600", look at the numbers down low. Most unmilled heads flow in the low 140s at .200", the high 190s or low 200s at .300", and high 240s at .400". Since we're trying to maximize airflow within the flow limits of the plastic intake manifold, a gain of 20 cfm at .300" and .400" will show huge hp gains (over 20 rwhp) whereas a flow gain of 20 cfm at .600" will show virtually no gain. Case in point: I used to have AFR 205s and I swapped to AFR small bore 225s. The 225s flowed 20 cfm better at .550", 22cfm better at .600", and 25 cfm better at .650" than my old 205s. Guess what? We gained virtually 0 hp with the swap.
We were even running a .650 lift cam to take advantage of the airflow. Nothing. The moral? Concentrate on getting more airflow within the flow limits of your intake manifold (ie, better flow at low and mid-lifts). Make sure your heads flow big numbers after they're milled.On a side note, the 205s still retained the standard CNC porting from AFR. No additional material was removed. This meant that the airspeed was very high and throttle response is fantastic. My fuel economy has increased compared to running the AFR 225s.
