408 or forge and turbo?
10-02-2007, 02:11 PM
#1
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408 or forge and turbo? Im budgeting about 8000 dollars for the project.
I could either buy a 6.0 shortblock from TSP Or I could pull my 98 ls1 out, forge it and go with a KYTP kit on it. I'm kind of leaning towards the larger cubes as if I pulled my ls1 I'd be able to sell the parts off of it to fund the project. Anyone feel free to chime in if they went either direction. And anybody have any projected costs? I figure I can get the motor together for around 6 ish and then get a 9 inch. I'd just like to get some input on which would be the more cost effective route to make my car a mean street/strip car. This car would also be daily driven about 6 months out of the year, so take that into account as well.
I could either buy a 6.0 shortblock from TSP Or I could pull my 98 ls1 out, forge it and go with a KYTP kit on it. I'm kind of leaning towards the larger cubes as if I pulled my ls1 I'd be able to sell the parts off of it to fund the project. Anyone feel free to chime in if they went either direction. And anybody have any projected costs? I figure I can get the motor together for around 6 ish and then get a 9 inch. I'd just like to get some input on which would be the more cost effective route to make my car a mean street/strip car. This car would also be daily driven about 6 months out of the year, so take that into account as well.
10-02-2007, 02:23 PM
#2
Im budgeting about 8000 dollars for the project.
I could either buy a 6.0 shortblock from TSP Or I could pull my 98 ls1 out, forge it and go with a KYTP kit on it. I'm kind of leaning towards the larger cubes as if I pulled my ls1 I'd be able to sell the parts off of it to fund the project. Anyone feel free to chime in if they went either direction. And anybody have any projected costs? I figure I can get the motor together for around 6 ish and then get a 9 inch. I'd just like to get some input on which would be the more cost effective route to make my car a mean street/strip car. This car would also be daily driven about 6 months out of the year, so take that into account as well.
I could either buy a 6.0 shortblock from TSP Or I could pull my 98 ls1 out, forge it and go with a KYTP kit on it. I'm kind of leaning towards the larger cubes as if I pulled my ls1 I'd be able to sell the parts off of it to fund the project. Anyone feel free to chime in if they went either direction. And anybody have any projected costs? I figure I can get the motor together for around 6 ish and then get a 9 inch. I'd just like to get some input on which would be the more cost effective route to make my car a mean street/strip car. This car would also be daily driven about 6 months out of the year, so take that into account as well.
10-02-2007, 03:51 PM
#3
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I'd personally go FI. I think the turbo sound is awesome. Not only that, but it'll retain much better fuel economy than a 408 through normal driving, and it'll retain better manners on the street since boost won't be made under normal driving conditions.
There's a reason why FI is more expensive: it's better, technologically speaking. There are way less cons to an FI setup. The biggest con is the cost, but you get what you pay for. An NA setup simply doesn't have the potential and efficiency of a turbo setup.
There's a reason why FI is more expensive: it's better, technologically speaking. There are way less cons to an FI setup. The biggest con is the cost, but you get what you pay for. An NA setup simply doesn't have the potential and efficiency of a turbo setup.
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10-03-2007, 07:27 AM
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well if you go the turbo/fi route be prepared for a better fuel systen,dual pump minimum. if you stay na a single pump will be plenty. a 408 with the l92/76 setup would be great then later on if you get tired get a stand alone fuel system and hose the hell out of it. if i had it to do again i would have just forged mine and stuck on a d1 or f1 procharger with a good fuel system.
10-03-2007, 09:38 AM
#10
well if you go the turbo/fi route be prepared for a better fuel systen,dual pump minimum. if you stay na a single pump will be plenty. a 408 with the l92/76 setup would be great then later on if you get tired get a stand alone fuel system and hose the hell out of it. if i had it to do again i would have just forged mine and stuck on a d1 or f1 procharger with a good fuel system.
I know it wasn't an option though. FI does add up so keep that in mind. 
10-03-2007, 10:26 AM
#12
I'd personally go FI. I think the turbo sound is awesome. Not only that, but it'll retain much better fuel economy than a 408 through normal driving, and it'll retain better manners on the street since boost won't be made under normal driving conditions.
There's a reason why FI is more expensive: it's better, technologically speaking. There are way less cons to an FI setup. The biggest con is the cost, but you get what you pay for. An NA setup simply doesn't have the potential and efficiency of a turbo setup.
There's a reason why FI is more expensive: it's better, technologically speaking. There are way less cons to an FI setup. The biggest con is the cost, but you get what you pay for. An NA setup simply doesn't have the potential and efficiency of a turbo setup.
Sorry Taco, but you really dont get it sometimes. No I'm not picking on you or following you either, just happens once in a while we hit the same thread and your totally wrong... a lot.For your budget the 408 is your fit. You need to look at the whole picture.
#1 you arent going to get crap for your ls1 or parts, it wont help with financing your build so dont look at it that way.
When looking at short block cost your about 1k under the actual final cost involved for the block without heads.
Lifters and trays, gaskets, oil pump, timing set and other things to finish the block off to make it ready to just bolt heads on and go about 1k.
SO that takes the 8000k down to 7k to begin with. Then add in a tune and your really at 6500 for your long block, which is about right with a decent set of heads.
What intake do you have now? Thats another 650-1100 depending on what you get.
No way on this earth do you put together a decent FI setup for, including long block, 8k unless your going Neon. Which by the way I just helped my friend install his stage 3 and hi put down 360/362. Not bad for a 4cylinder car under 3000 lbs.
I say 408 keep the compression reasonable and then save for a procharger. You dont need deep dish pistons and you should shoot for 10.3:1.
Last edited by 99blancoSS; 10-03-2007 at 10:37 AM.
10-03-2007, 11:17 AM
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I'd personally go FI. I think the turbo sound is awesome. Not only that, but it'll retain much better fuel economy than a 408 through normal driving, and it'll retain better manners on the street since boost won't be made under normal driving conditions.
There's a reason why FI is more expensive: it's better, technologically speaking. There are way less cons to an FI setup. The biggest con is the cost, but you get what you pay for. An NA setup simply doesn't have the potential and efficiency of a turbo setup.
There's a reason why FI is more expensive: it's better, technologically speaking. There are way less cons to an FI setup. The biggest con is the cost, but you get what you pay for. An NA setup simply doesn't have the potential and efficiency of a turbo setup.
I can see where your coming from w/ that statement, however, there should be some other things mentioned, too.
In performance, FI only has the upper ground w/ high RPM, high MPH runs, and usually can be noticeable on the back 1/8 mile on the strip. To the OP, an NA setup carefully built and w/ a good combination of parts, especially the cam and gears chosen, can hang with, compete, and in some cases outdo a higher powered turbo car. However, this is considering the straight line performance (roll racing) is not the only thing you desire.
The NA setup will be cheaper, period. It will have less problems assuming you don't go too big on the cam and compression and have a decent tuner.
What people don't mention is turbo maintenance. The turbo kits tend to have leaking problems, heat issues, and will also need exclusive parts to maximize the performance, such as fuel upgrades as said before. Also..if you beat on the car day in and day out..the turbo setup will simply not last as long..it's been tried over many generations and most can agree you don't turbo a motor for reliability.
NA - You'll obviously have a harder time pushing 600rwhp to an NA setup, but could easily have a setup faster than most turbo setups if you went w/ a really large cube..such as an LSX 454. Something like that would be more enjoyable because your powerband will be superior to that of a turbo powerband. 400+wtq would be had at very low RPM's and hold strong into the 5XXwtq further into the powerband. With shorter gears, this setup could yield a very impressive result. If you want an equally powerful NA setup compared to a moderate turbo setup (I assume since you would have forged internals), you'll have to go bigger than 408ci, something like 427+, I think. Or..
FI - Build a low comp 408 setup..and then supercharge the motor. The reason I say supercharge rather than turbo..because your trying to keep a street setup, and reduce heat problems, as well as keeping costs down to Earth and avoiding complicated setups. The more simplicity, the more street friendly. Less things to go wrong w/ simplicity. The more simplicity, the cheaper it is to purchase, install, and maintain. If you choose to TT your DD car, then you should pay lots and lots of money to have it done right by professionals, and try to get a warranty. Hope to God it doesn't get stolen.
I'm only trying to help the OP to see all edges of the cube...
10-03-2007, 07:49 PM
#15
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Again Taco is misinformed... theres something new... Sorry Taco, but you really dont get it sometimes. No I'm not picking on you or following you either, just happens once in a while we hit the same thread and your totally wrong... a lot.
For your budget the 408 is your fit. You need to look at the whole picture.
#1 you arent going to get crap for your ls1 or parts, it wont help with financing your build so dont look at it that way.
When looking at short block cost your about 1k under the actual final cost involved for the block without heads.
Lifters and trays, gaskets, oil pump, timing set and other things to finish the block off to make it ready to just bolt heads on and go about 1k.
SO that takes the 8000k down to 7k to begin with. Then add in a tune and your really at 6500 for your long block, which is about right with a decent set of heads.
What intake do you have now? Thats another 650-1100 depending on what you get.
No way on this earth do you put together a decent FI setup for, including long block, 8k unless your going Neon. Which by the way I just helped my friend install his stage 3 and hi put down 360/362. Not bad for a 4cylinder car under 3000 lbs.
I say 408 keep the compression reasonable and then save for a procharger. You dont need deep dish pistons and you should shoot for 10.3:1.
Sorry Taco, but you really dont get it sometimes. No I'm not picking on you or following you either, just happens once in a while we hit the same thread and your totally wrong... a lot.For your budget the 408 is your fit. You need to look at the whole picture.
#1 you arent going to get crap for your ls1 or parts, it wont help with financing your build so dont look at it that way.
When looking at short block cost your about 1k under the actual final cost involved for the block without heads.
Lifters and trays, gaskets, oil pump, timing set and other things to finish the block off to make it ready to just bolt heads on and go about 1k.
SO that takes the 8000k down to 7k to begin with. Then add in a tune and your really at 6500 for your long block, which is about right with a decent set of heads.
What intake do you have now? Thats another 650-1100 depending on what you get.
No way on this earth do you put together a decent FI setup for, including long block, 8k unless your going Neon. Which by the way I just helped my friend install his stage 3 and hi put down 360/362. Not bad for a 4cylinder car under 3000 lbs.
I say 408 keep the compression reasonable and then save for a procharger. You dont need deep dish pistons and you should shoot for 10.3:1.
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
There's a reason why FI is more expensive...The biggest con is the cost, but you get what you pay for.
FI is better than NA. It costs more money, but it's well worth it. You're so full of ****, I can smell you from here. You'll do ANYTHING to start an argument with me, even put words in my mouth. Shut up.
10-05-2007, 04:15 AM
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8 grand is a good budget for a 408, BAD budget for a forged mild/high boost application. Nothing wrong with a nice H/C 408. It'll still put quite a few FI cars to shame if you match up the right combo. Hell, as long as you're getting a new bottom end, might as well set it up for N2O and spray it with around a 200 shot, then you'll have the best of both worlds w/out the problems/headaches/cost of FI.
10-05-2007, 02:12 PM
#20
yeah you cant say one is better than the other. they both have pros and cons to them. that comment was a very arragant one and nothing is ncessarly better than the other. ne way i think that you should save and maybe do a 408 w/ a single turbo set up or with a nitrous set up.those iron blocks can take a beating like no other. what ar your goals for the car first of all?????
