TSP torquer vs2.....Not impressed
No its not. What absurd is saying the tsp 224r is the same as any other 224 on the planet. I out pulled a 232/234 cam with my tr224 all the way to 6000 rpms by 20 hp and torque.
Your not comparing apples to apples here. The TR224 is just abut the best cam on the planet for a 346. TSP cams are not, they have made drastic improvements but the v2 isnt one of them. MS3 and 4 are your bread and butter.
Your not comparing apples to apples here. The TR224 is just abut the best cam on the planet for a 346. TSP cams are not, they have made drastic improvements but the v2 isnt one of them. MS3 and 4 are your bread and butter.
Back to the topic, there is something wrong. I can tell you it's a fact that the Torquer cam will pick up power over any 224 cam, no matter the brand. I say this because I want to help, not because I'm trying to prove a point.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
__________________
Wow, I never hear anything about any other cam from TSP except the ms3 and 4 but you should know what you sell more of.
The fact is the tr224 develops more power quiker than the v2. If they didnt run the dyno all the way out it wont show the bigger cams power. But that doesnt mean it makes more power. Whats the avg hp and tq? I will aso say and guaranty that the v2 will not make more torque than the tr224. These are proven dyno results over the past 3-4 yrs. You might get a peak hp number higher but thats about it.
I still say this guys results are in line. Remember that dyno numbers change like the weather with the weather. Texas might have the same air all the time but its been my experience that two very similar looking days can produce 11 hp and tq difference so that needs to be looked at as well with the results.
The fact is the tr224 develops more power quiker than the v2. If they didnt run the dyno all the way out it wont show the bigger cams power. But that doesnt mean it makes more power. Whats the avg hp and tq? I will aso say and guaranty that the v2 will not make more torque than the tr224. These are proven dyno results over the past 3-4 yrs. You might get a peak hp number higher but thats about it.
I still say this guys results are in line. Remember that dyno numbers change like the weather with the weather. Texas might have the same air all the time but its been my experience that two very similar looking days can produce 11 hp and tq difference so that needs to be looked at as well with the results.
ANY 224 cam will make its power quicker/earlier than the Torquer cam. It's less duration, so unless the LSA and ICL are 6+ degrees less on the Torquer you'll see this with ANY 224 cam. The larger cams will make power power, but it's normally at a higher RPM. Again, this is any brand cam. I'm also aware of changing dyno numbers. We use ours year-round. This is why I asked if the same dyno was used.
This country is great because everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. From MY experience as a performance shop owner, this is NOT normal.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
This country is great because everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. From MY experience as a performance shop owner, this is NOT normal.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
__________________
Well if you add things up it might be a normal result. First we dont have the graph to look at so who knows where the pull was stopped. Second we dont know the weather changes. SO if your losing say 10-15 hp due to atmospheric conditions and then stop the pull short your going to see these results, right? Your right we see this differently but I'm trying to look at all the angles not just saying a bigger cam make should have made more power. I'm on my 3 combo and have gone with a bigger cam each time. I do have some direct knowledge about this.
How come is it that u can claim that....but when i post about beating a tr224 car (ive since beat another) by 2 lengths, u say its impossilbe and soemthing was wrong with that car cause theres no way in the world anyone could beat a tr224.....Its a great cam no denying it, but damn man its not "the best cam ever"...made by jesus him self.
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Well I am going to go out on a limb here and say I think his initial results are either bogus or indeliberately scewed. I do not believe he was making 430 RWHP and 409 RWTQ with the 224 on a MUSTANG dyno, with Mustang dyno calibrations. Now if it had been calibrated to reflect dynojet numbers maybe, but that would still be very impressive with even the TR224. All you other guys commenting about similar results with the TR224, was it on a Mustang dyno or Dynojet dyno? Perhaps this shop has either changed dyno's since the initial dyno or calibration setups. That is unless this car was dyno'd right before the swap in which case I will apologize for my statemenst and suggest you put the TR224 right back in and proceed with the *** whooping, because from what I have seen one here 430 mustang dyno hp would be closer to 460+ dynojet numbers.
Wait a second, 430 w/ a cam only? FAST or LS6 cause those are some wicked numbers if you don't have any heads or FAST.
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I have the dyno graphs for those that don't believe. I can't attach them in here bec they are 390kb and the limit for attachments is 100kb. I know he pulled it out to 6653rpm on both dyno times. Average hp with correction was 306 and torque was 331.
It's the same dyno with the only changes being a recalibration right before I had it dynoed last time with my 224 cam. It put down those awesome *** numbers and I got greedy and wanted more so I went with the torquer vs.2. I don't know what the deal is and Bret couldn't figure it out either. All of my sensors were working correctly from what he could tell. The car did seem a little slugish on the dyno also.
TSP if you guys want to see my dyno sheets send me a an e-mail address and I can send them that way. I would really like to get to the bottom of this, cause shes my baby.....
I need her healthy again.
It's the same dyno with the only changes being a recalibration right before I had it dynoed last time with my 224 cam. It put down those awesome *** numbers and I got greedy and wanted more so I went with the torquer vs.2. I don't know what the deal is and Bret couldn't figure it out either. All of my sensors were working correctly from what he could tell. The car did seem a little slugish on the dyno also.
TSP if you guys want to see my dyno sheets send me a an e-mail address and I can send them that way. I would really like to get to the bottom of this, cause shes my baby.....
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From: BFE
Well everyone defending their opinions forgot to ask further questions, what LSA is the TV2 on?
I used a TV2 (which is no creation since it is a Comp developped cam) on a 113 LSA VS a 224 cam and was also dissapointed with almost no gains.
Trick is balance of combo, the TV2 need smaller chambers to raise DCR and benefit from added duration.
Now I find the loss in this case a bit huge, but no gain is possible. IMO cam only, TSP made the right move in the TV3 by offering it on a 111 LSA, if I were to do a 232/234 again, that is what I would choose for better VEs. Even 110
I used a TV2 (which is no creation since it is a Comp developped cam) on a 113 LSA VS a 224 cam and was also dissapointed with almost no gains.
Trick is balance of combo, the TV2 need smaller chambers to raise DCR and benefit from added duration.
Now I find the loss in this case a bit huge, but no gain is possible. IMO cam only, TSP made the right move in the TV3 by offering it on a 111 LSA, if I were to do a 232/234 again, that is what I would choose for better VEs. Even 110
You have got to be kidding me.....
Yes, over camming an engine is very possible, but being that it already has heads and intake, all else equal, the tv2 will make more power.
BTW, what did the curve look like with the new cam? Was it smooth or bumpy? What did the a/f ratio look like?
I am interested in the heads you are running....a guy I know just had a tv2, ls6 intake, and unported ls6 heads installed and tuned on a mustang dyno and made 402rwhp.
BTW, don't all dynoes have corrected numbers? All mustang dynoes do I believe....making atmospheric conditions ALMOST meaningless......
Yes, over camming an engine is very possible, but being that it already has heads and intake, all else equal, the tv2 will make more power.
BTW, what did the curve look like with the new cam? Was it smooth or bumpy? What did the a/f ratio look like?
I am interested in the heads you are running....a guy I know just had a tv2, ls6 intake, and unported ls6 heads installed and tuned on a mustang dyno and made 402rwhp.
BTW, don't all dynoes have corrected numbers? All mustang dynoes do I believe....making atmospheric conditions ALMOST meaningless......
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I can definitely notice the power difference. It's a little sluggish and the torque that I had isn't there anymore. My heads are stock 241 castings ported and polished with a 5 angle valve job on the stock valves. The intake is port matched also. The LSA on the Torquer I have is a 112 just like the 224 I had. TSP didn't offer anything less when I placed my order a few months ago. And yes the mustang dyno has corrected numbers. Ok I downloaded infanview and resized the dyno graphs. Here you can see the difference and how the curves look.
How come is it that u can claim that....but when i post about beating a tr224 car (ive since beat another) by 2 lengths, u say its impossilbe and soemthing was wrong with that car cause theres no way in the world anyone could beat a tr224.....Its a great cam no denying it, but damn man its not "the best cam ever"...made by jesus him self.
Not sure where you get me saying no other cam can beat a tr224 but what ever. The only time the bigger cam eclipsed the tr224 was over 6000 rpm and then it was only by 7hp, never touched the torque. SO by direct results I can say what I say. Yes IMO the tr224 112 lsa is the best cam ever for a 346 car. Show me a customer graph on an independant dyno where it gets outpulled from 1500-6000 rpms and I'll change my opinion. See key word there is opinion. Mine formed from seeing results. I'm more than sure there are others who will say different because they have seen different. Thats how it works.
Last edited by 99blancoSS; Nov 18, 2007 at 11:51 AM.
hey guys this my first post i just signed up havent even set up my profile yet but i been visiting this site for about three years if it wasnt for this site i wouldnt know half the stuff i know about the ls1 but come guys dont bash tsp or the v2 i can say that cause i deal with tsp alot they are who i get most of my parts from and i think are one of the best shops out their and i run a v2 with stock 243 heads full boltons and make 428whp and 410wtrq on a mustang dyno so theirs is deff something clashing with his setup he should have not lost any power and as far as the v2 not having any torque i made 400 even on the same dyno with 853 castings and an ls1 intake with 70000 on the clock just have to stick up for the cam cause i run and am happy with it so lets quit bashing and find out whats up with his car
Well everyone defending their opinions forgot to ask further questions, what LSA is the TV2 on?
I used a TV2 (which is no creation since it is a Comp developped cam) on a 113 LSA VS a 224 cam and was also dissapointed with almost no gains.
Trick is balance of combo, the TV2 need smaller chambers to raise DCR and benefit from added duration.
Now I find the loss in this case a bit huge, but no gain is possible. IMO cam only, TSP made the right move in the TV3 by offering it on a 111 LSA, if I were to do a 232/234 again, that is what I would choose for better VEs. Even 110
I used a TV2 (which is no creation since it is a Comp developped cam) on a 113 LSA VS a 224 cam and was also dissapointed with almost no gains.
Trick is balance of combo, the TV2 need smaller chambers to raise DCR and benefit from added duration.
Now I find the loss in this case a bit huge, but no gain is possible. IMO cam only, TSP made the right move in the TV3 by offering it on a 111 LSA, if I were to do a 232/234 again, that is what I would choose for better VEs. Even 110
That is the key right there. The T2 needs a higher SCR to create the same amount of torque as the smaller 224 cam. The intake valve events on the T2 bleed off more compression than the 224, so it makes less torque. - Typically it will make higher HP numbers, just much farther up the RPM range (6500-7200)
Because I sat on the same dyno within 2 days of that previous combination and looked at the results. My car a 99 with 5.3 prc heads, tr224 cam lt's and ls6 intake. His car 01 TEA 5.3 and an FM13 and a better exhaust. It could be argued that the PRC heads are better than the TEA heads and that's why the results but I suspect they are about equal.
Not sure where you get me saying no other cam can beat a tr224 but what ever.
Not sure where you get me saying no other cam can beat a tr224 but what ever.
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hey guys this my first post i just signed up havent even set up my profile yet but i been visiting this site for about three years if it wasnt for this site i wouldnt know half the stuff i know about the ls1 but come guys dont bash tsp or the v2 i can say that cause i deal with tsp alot they are who i get most of my parts from and i think are one of the best shops out their and i run a v2 with stock 243 heads full boltons and make 428whp and 410wtrq on a mustang dyno so theirs is deff something clashing with his setup he should have not lost any power and as far as the v2 not having any torque i made 400 even on the same dyno with 853 castings and an ls1 intake with 70000 on the clock just have to stick up for the cam cause i run and am happy with it so lets quit bashing and find out whats up with his car
stock valve size? i wouldn't see that being the issue, i am running STOCK 241's with a MS4(which everyone knows is HUGE) LS6 intake M6 12 bolt blah blah blah. car made 404whp and 376wtq. There is such things as too big a cam, but I am not seeing this problem on LS motors.
TSP-you guys rock, you know your LS1's and i will be coming to you guys for my heads and intake!
I read through the whole thing, maybe i missed something, but what heads are you running anyways?
TSP-you guys rock, you know your LS1's and i will be coming to you guys for my heads and intake!
I read through the whole thing, maybe i missed something, but what heads are you running anyways?