LS1HIGHLIFE

iTrader: (8)

I just recently went from a TR 224/224 .563/.564 on a 112lsa cam and threw down 430rwhp/409rwtq with heads/exhaust/bolt-ons to TSP's torquer vs.2. I added larger fuel injectors and rails and yet I dropped 23 hp and 48 ft lbs of torque to the rear wheels last night after tuning.

Like the subj line said, I'm not impressed. NO I'm NOT BASHING TSP, there a great company and a group of great guys! I just don't see how this cam is called a torquer........


After all my headaches over this problem It's finally fixed. The last page in this thread explains it all..... Thanks to TSP for getting me all straightened out.

NC98Z

iTrader: (1)

How is your car setup full boltons? A4 M6? Same dyno?

3rdgentug

iTrader: (23)

something sounds amiss

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

somethings wrong somewhere. You gotta have a bad sensor or a leak or something to that nature. you should have not lost any power

got milk??

iTrader: (18)

i would definitly get that looked into your HP and TQ numbers are way off for that cam and all that work. i have a 98 with that cam and it put down 382 hp and 368 tq cam only m6 ls6 intake. good luck though!

99TransAmLS16Spd

iTrader: (8)

I'm joining the crowd and telling you the same thing. Something is not right. Did you do the cam and tune/rent the dyno? or bring it to a shop?
Keep in mind that if you had it on a dyno jet with the first cam and a mustang dyno with the torqer v.2, your dyno numbers are going to compare differently.

chriswtx

iTrader: (5)

did you degree the cam when you installed it??

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

That's ridiculous. You should have picked up a solid 15-20 RWHP. We would all be running 224 camshafts if they made 20+ RWHP more than the larger cams. You need to check the cam position in the engine. Did you correctly retune for the larger injectors? Were you using the same dyno? We've done this cam swap many times from our 224R cam to our Torquer cam, and it always will gain 15-20 RWHP, depending on the setup.

Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance

LS1HIGHLIFE

iTrader: (8)

Full bolt ons, 6-speed, same dyno at F-body central in Baltimore, MD. They have a mustang dyno. The injectors were adjusted for in the tune also. As far as degreeing the cam when installing it, I didn't. I left it straight up, dot to dot. I don't know what is wrong. Bret told me my exhaust could be restricting it more since I swapped from a cut out and Flowmaster to a new Magnaflow. And he said my intake needs to go. I have a Weiand intake. But that doesn't make any sense. If I put down that kind of power with the 224 and the same equipment....... I hope my car doesn't blow up tomorrow.

RedDemonLsX

iTrader: (2)

What you have now in Torquer 2 numbers.When i was cam only i made 390/365 and im an auto,i also know of a few other people running that cam and are right at 400whp and they are M6.And am i the only one who thinks 430whp on a 224 seems quite a bit high..To me your Torquer 2 numbers seem right on,its your 224 numbers that seem off..

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

I'd say it's close to being right. The TR224 doesn’t not act like a small cam. The tv2 was never a screamer hence the 3rd and 4th versions of it is my take. TSP torquer cams weren’t very torquey in the beginning.

As far as the 430 with a tr224 and heads yes that’s possible and very do able. You need to go quite a bit bigger to beat out the TR224.

The TR224 is the quintessential off the shelf cam

davered00ss

iTrader: (4)

What he said. 430/403 mods in sig.

davered00ss

iTrader: (4)

Also, I made 385rwhp/370rwtq cam only.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Thats your 224 cam not Thunders 224 cam which is the best 224 cam on the planet. No disrepsect intended. Big difference in 224 cams between a TSP 224r and TR224. It's all about the lobes. Thunder's lobes are proprietary, they cant be duplicated.

INMY01TA

iTrader: (1)

I had my car on F Body Centrals dyno about two weeks ago. 231/236, 613/613, 111 custom grind cam only with a Fast 90/90 here. Made 390 corrected on their dyno. There is no way a 224 would put down those kinda #s on their dyno. Must have been recalibrated recently or something. Be happy.

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

That's also ridiculous. I'm not sure what you mean by the TR224 cam not acting like a small cam, but insinuating that the results are correct when he loses over 20 RWHP with the swap is absurd. There are three versions of the Torquer camshaft. The original we no longer sell, and the v.2 and v.3 are both very popular. We have revisions because of continual cam lobe development, along with refinements. I'm also not sure what you mean by the Torquer never being a "screamer", but it was meant to be a great street/strip camshaft that makes great power for the guys/girls that do not want to step up to the all-out aggressive camshafts like our MS3 and MS4. We've done the cam swap many times against many different versions of the 224/224 cam. Swapping to one of the Torquer cams WILL gain power. Stating "you need to go quite a bit bigger to beat out the TR224" is beyond far-fetched. They aren't magical lobes. Again, if this were the case, we'd all be running 224 camshafts. The TR224 has been around for a long time, and it has a cult-like following. However, it doesn't mean that all logic should be tossed out the window.

Losing 23 HP and 48 TQ indicates that something is wrong if the information is accurate. Implying that the loss is normal or should be expected is ludicrous.

Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance

RedDemonLsX

iTrader: (2)

oops...didnt notice he had heads,thought it was a cam only car...Yea,id say somthing is wrong there..

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

I'm well-versed in cam lobes. I do this for a living. We use an XE-R lobe, and Thunder's 224 has less lift but a similar ramp rate to that of an XE-R. I know because I talked to Geoff about this cam in 2002. The TR224 is a great cam, but that doesn't give it the ability to make 23HP/48TQ over a larger cam that is more than proven. It's simple cam theory, no matter which vendor or manufacturer you're talking about.

Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance

john563

iTrader: (17)

I dont quite put down 430rwhp,with my tr224.I put down 417rwhp 407rwt,but I'm also an A4. So I would say 430rwhp is very doable with 6speed witha tr224.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

No its not. What absurd is saying the tsp 224r is the same as any other 224 on the planet. I out pulled a 232/234 cam with my tr224 all the way to 6000 rpms by 20 hp and torque.

Your not comparing apples to apples here. The TR224 is just abut the best cam on the planet for a 346. TSP cams are not, they have made drastic improvements but the v2 isnt one of them. MS3 and 4 are your bread and butter.

Your making broad general statements I'm basing mine on facts and dyno results that didnt come from Texas.

As far as the 430 with a tr224 and heads yes that’s possible and very do able. You need to go quite a bit bigger to beat out the TR224.


Now its possible the results this guy got are infleunced by weather, and the dynio itself. Did they run it out long enough for the cam in the first place? The tr224 peaks before the bigger cam and if you dont give the bigger cam the proper rpms then your not going to see the power of the cam.