Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s
02-04-2003, 07:31 PM
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s Are you going to run them without a pipe?
Seriously the only reason to have them flowed without a pipe is to compare flow numbers with someone else's. If they were not done on the same bench you are not getting a good comparison.
The purpose of flowing with a pipe is to show the the potential of the port.You can make an exhaust port flow without a pipe but generally the port size is much larger.
Notice how some well known after market heads are using a small port/valve on the exhaust side.
Seems funny to me that all flow with a radiused inlet but only a few flow with a pipe.
And yet we use a free flowing exhaust and a restricted intake.... Just a thought.
BT I think 99XXXta had them flowed both ways.
<small>[ February 04, 2003, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: H82BBad ]</small>
Seriously the only reason to have them flowed without a pipe is to compare flow numbers with someone else's. If they were not done on the same bench you are not getting a good comparison.
The purpose of flowing with a pipe is to show the the potential of the port.You can make an exhaust port flow without a pipe but generally the port size is much larger.
Notice how some well known after market heads are using a small port/valve on the exhaust side.
Seems funny to me that all flow with a radiused inlet but only a few flow with a pipe.
And yet we use a free flowing exhaust and a restricted intake.... Just a thought.
BT I think 99XXXta had them flowed both ways.
<small>[ February 04, 2003, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: H82BBad ]</small>
02-04-2003, 07:45 PM
#4
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s [QUOTE]Originally posted by H82BBad:
[qb] Are you going to run them without a pipe?
Seriously the only reason to have them flowed without a pipe is to compare flow numbers with someone else's. If they were not done on the same bench you are not getting a good comparison.
The purpose of flowing with a pipe is to show the the potential of the port.You can make an exhaust port flow without a pipe but generally the port size is much larger.
Notice how some well known after market heads are using a small port/valve on the exhaust side.
Seems funny to me that all flow with a radiused inlet but only a few flow with a pipe.
And yet we use a free flowing exhaust and a restricted intake.... Just a thought.
"Well im glad you brought this up, because i tested ported head with my Hooker Long tubes bolted on the head. It lost slight flow over no tube on port at many lifts. What does TEA's method of flow testing exhaust represent? It certainly isnt what flow is like running headers, i proved that myself. Care to shed some light on this for me?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
<small>[ February 04, 2003, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: LS1derfull ]</small>
[qb] Are you going to run them without a pipe?
Seriously the only reason to have them flowed without a pipe is to compare flow numbers with someone else's. If they were not done on the same bench you are not getting a good comparison.
The purpose of flowing with a pipe is to show the the potential of the port.You can make an exhaust port flow without a pipe but generally the port size is much larger.
Notice how some well known after market heads are using a small port/valve on the exhaust side.
Seems funny to me that all flow with a radiused inlet but only a few flow with a pipe.
And yet we use a free flowing exhaust and a restricted intake.... Just a thought.
"Well im glad you brought this up, because i tested ported head with my Hooker Long tubes bolted on the head. It lost slight flow over no tube on port at many lifts. What does TEA's method of flow testing exhaust represent? It certainly isnt what flow is like running headers, i proved that myself. Care to shed some light on this for me?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
<small>[ February 04, 2003, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: LS1derfull ]</small>
02-04-2003, 07:53 PM
#5
Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s I am trying to compare the i/e efficiency of different cylinder heads. Who cares if they are flowed on a different bench...I am looking for % of intake to exhaust #s. Next....
Phillip
Phillip
02-04-2003, 07:57 PM
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by phil97svt:
<strong> I am trying to compare the i/e efficiency of different cylinder heads. Who cares if they are flowed on a different bench...I am looking for % of intake to exhaust #s. Next....
Phillip </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So am I, you missed the point, its not about testing on different benches, its about what TEA"s test method is supposed to represent, when they get those really high exhaust flow #'s.
Next....
<strong> I am trying to compare the i/e efficiency of different cylinder heads. Who cares if they are flowed on a different bench...I am looking for % of intake to exhaust #s. Next....
Phillip </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So am I, you missed the point, its not about testing on different benches, its about what TEA"s test method is supposed to represent, when they get those really high exhaust flow #'s.
Next....
02-04-2003, 08:27 PM
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s IMO its not about what the final number is it is about the improvment made. Its about the shop performace. TEA test the same way they test every head in the shop. If they flow a stock head,guess what, its got a pipe on it.Do there heads work? I would say yes because they Sure seem to be winning in a lot of the heads up Ford classes.
I know a simple solution when you buy a set of heads from TEA have them flow them both ways.If you are that curious. I think the way you posted you act like its something TEA dreamed up to scam people..... its not it is common practice.
Besides I know you dont think flowing with a header tells the complete story, I mean what about the headers exhaust scavaging? did you have a vacuum hooked to your header? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
For that matter a flow bench wont pull the same amount as a running engine.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1derfull:
<strong> [QUOTE]] its not about testing on different benches, its about what TEA"s test method is supposed to represent, when they get those really high exhaust flow #'s.
Next.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It just seems to me that even though you arent always the first to post it seems to me you are one of the first to get on and bash the way they test.... Whats the matter with ya? Lactose intolerant? Or just a competiter?A miffed customer perhaps?(doubt that)
Do you know anyother shops that flow with a pipe? I do.
<small>[ February 04, 2003, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: H82BBad ]</small>
I know a simple solution when you buy a set of heads from TEA have them flow them both ways.If you are that curious. I think the way you posted you act like its something TEA dreamed up to scam people..... its not it is common practice.
Besides I know you dont think flowing with a header tells the complete story, I mean what about the headers exhaust scavaging? did you have a vacuum hooked to your header? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
For that matter a flow bench wont pull the same amount as a running engine.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1derfull:
<strong> [QUOTE]] its not about testing on different benches, its about what TEA"s test method is supposed to represent, when they get those really high exhaust flow #'s.
Next.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It just seems to me that even though you arent always the first to post it seems to me you are one of the first to get on and bash the way they test.... Whats the matter with ya? Lactose intolerant? Or just a competiter?A miffed customer perhaps?(doubt that)
Do you know anyother shops that flow with a pipe? I do.
<small>[ February 04, 2003, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: H82BBad ]</small>
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02-04-2003, 10:51 PM
#8
Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s H82BBad,,I just read this post and you missed the point!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Relax,there is no bashing going on here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Well,except you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
Well,except you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
02-05-2003, 05:42 AM
#9
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s Not jealous or bashing, just want everybody to use same "language" when posting flow and dyno times, so we can all compare apples to apples, ok?
Would you want to know 1/4 mile track times from people who raced on a track that went downhill?
I wouldnt, it would only confuse performance data. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Would you want to know 1/4 mile track times from people who raced on a track that went downhill?
I wouldnt, it would only confuse performance data. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
02-05-2003, 07:13 AM
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s I was not bashing just was short on smilies!
My point is most everyone in the industry use a pipe. Alot of the newer shops dont.
I dont know why they dont. If they will flow better for them why not use a pipe.
I also pointed out why using a header wont show real world results.Because a header doesnt show the same results as it would when being run on a car.Because there is no exhaust scavaging when a header is on a flow bench.
But someone posted an independent flow chart of there TEA head's without using a pipe. I just cant remember his username.
I think it was 99 black ta or something similar.
He had a shop in the Carolina's put them on
My point is most everyone in the industry use a pipe. Alot of the newer shops dont.
I dont know why they dont. If they will flow better for them why not use a pipe.
I also pointed out why using a header wont show real world results.Because a header doesnt show the same results as it would when being run on a car.Because there is no exhaust scavaging when a header is on a flow bench.
But someone posted an independent flow chart of there TEA head's without using a pipe. I just cant remember his username.
I think it was 99 black ta or something similar.
He had a shop in the Carolina's put them on
02-05-2003, 06:23 PM
#11
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s I am not trying to split hairs, but i have flown many ports with only a section of tube on port and they only pick up 10cfm or so. My point is if they are getting 250cfm + and tube is worth 10 maybe 15cfm, than they have a 1.57" valve exh. port in LS1 head flowing 240cfm? My and others on here are getting 210 cfm at .600", my professional opinion is that there is not 40 more cfm to gain on LS1 head by adding some tube to flow procedure. We dont really know how good TEA exhaust port flows for I/E ratio comparisons with other competitors heads, and that is what Phil is asking with this post.
02-05-2003, 08:08 PM
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s Just wanted to say I didnt mean to come off sounding like an a$$.
Bad week with a death in the family.
99 Black Bird T/A. had them flowed with no pipe.
Bad week with a death in the family.
99 Black Bird T/A. had them flowed with no pipe.
02-08-2003, 11:45 PM
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s Allrighty now we are getting somewhere! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Come out, come out, where ever U are 99 Black Bird T/A! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
U have info we need! <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<small>[ February 09, 2003, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Orange Krush ]</small>
Come out, come out, where ever U are 99 Black Bird T/A! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
U have info we need! <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<small>[ February 09, 2003, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Orange Krush ]</small>
02-09-2003, 12:02 AM
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s LS1derfull,
On a side note, how are your LS6 heads coming along? Just curious.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
On a side note, how are your LS6 heads coming along? Just curious.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
02-09-2003, 11:52 AM
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s I'm seeing 5-7% increase with a 4inch long 1 3/4" tube over a no tube port. I've seen an exhaust port with a full length header bolted up, flow the same as nothing on the port.
02-09-2003, 05:57 PM
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s Well,
Even though they may not be the highest flowing, if you feel that given the port volume and velocity they will output atleast 450RWHP that's awesome! Especially if you're talking just about a head/cam hydraulic 346.
Time to get a set finished and throw a big cam with them in someone's car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<small>[ February 09, 2003, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: JF WS6 ]</small>
Even though they may not be the highest flowing, if you feel that given the port volume and velocity they will output atleast 450RWHP that's awesome! Especially if you're talking just about a head/cam hydraulic 346.
Time to get a set finished and throw a big cam with them in someone's car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<small>[ February 09, 2003, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: JF WS6 ]</small>
02-09-2003, 09:49 PM
#18
Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s The great debate continues..... We use a 1 3/4" diameter pipe about 6" long, I picked it up for free at the local muffler shop (Midas). If any one flowing heads needs one I will send you one for free! We see about 30 cfm difference between pipe and no pipe. Our stock 1.55 exhaust valve has now seen 270cfm at .600". We ran our big exhaust program on a set of heads recently and installed the oversize seats and 1.600" Ferrea valves and it went 274 at .600" but the small port/stock valve outflowed it from .100"-.550". Pretty strange uh, this is not a car 1.55 valve, it comes in some truck heads, 4.8/5.3 it is very tulip in shape and has a big dish in the face of it. Phil, if you want a killer exhaust port then I would suggest a LS6 head, we have one that goes 280 cfm @ .600" and flows killer from top to bottom. I just installed a Stage 1.5 on my own C5 that flowed 270 @ .600", I want to run high 9's and I will let you know how it comes out.
Brian Tooley
Brian Tooley
02-09-2003, 10:43 PM
#19
Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Orange Krush:
<strong> Allrighty now we are getting somewhere! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Come out, come out, where ever U are 99 Black Bird T/A! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
U have info we need! <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That would be me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I'll be happy to share the flow data.
TEA's bench
Intake lift flow number
200 140
300 205
400 252
500 286
550 298
600 303
SRP's bench
200 134.5
300 197.9
400 246.0
500 280.6
550 289.7
600 280.6
max flow 292 at .570 lift
TEA Exhaust numbers with PIPE 1 3/4 inch
200 109
300 165
400 207
500 235
550 248
600 255
SRP Exhaust numbers WITHOUT Pipe
200 102.7
300 143.4
400 171.5
500 191.3
550 195.2
600 200.9
My personal thoughts are if you use a pipe on the exhaust for more realistic data, you should also use an LS6 intake runner on the intake side to determine the intake flow. After SRP flowed my heads every way possible (without intake, with LS1 intake, with LS6 intake, checked for reversion, swirl etc cause SRP won't install unless it's right) we selected a single pattern cam as that seem best for my goals.
Sorry I've been away from the board, had a lot going on the for that last few weeks.
BTW SRP has my old stock LS1 heads and just finished CNC'ing them. These are for another customer but I'm hoping I'll get to see the flow numbers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I'm very happy with the TEA heads I have on my car and with SRP. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<strong> Allrighty now we are getting somewhere! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Come out, come out, where ever U are 99 Black Bird T/A! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_images/icons/tongue.gif" />
U have info we need! <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That would be me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
I'll be happy to share the flow data.
TEA's bench
Intake lift flow number
200 140
300 205
400 252
500 286
550 298
600 303
SRP's bench
200 134.5
300 197.9
400 246.0
500 280.6
550 289.7
600 280.6
max flow 292 at .570 lift
TEA Exhaust numbers with PIPE 1 3/4 inch
200 109
300 165
400 207
500 235
550 248
600 255
SRP Exhaust numbers WITHOUT Pipe
200 102.7
300 143.4
400 171.5
500 191.3
550 195.2
600 200.9
My personal thoughts are if you use a pipe on the exhaust for more realistic data, you should also use an LS6 intake runner on the intake side to determine the intake flow. After SRP flowed my heads every way possible (without intake, with LS1 intake, with LS6 intake, checked for reversion, swirl etc cause SRP won't install unless it's right) we selected a single pattern cam as that seem best for my goals.
Sorry I've been away from the board, had a lot going on the for that last few weeks.
BTW SRP has my old stock LS1 heads and just finished CNC'ing them. These are for another customer but I'm hoping I'll get to see the flow numbers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I'm very happy with the TEA heads I have on my car and with SRP. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
02-10-2003, 12:48 AM
#20
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Re: Anyone flowed a TEA S2 5.3 head without a pipe...looking for comparo #s </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JF WS6:
<strong> LS1derfull,
On a side note, how are your LS6 heads coming along? Just curious.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No problem, i have 305cfm at .575" with a 225cc intake port and exh. is 211 cfm at .575" with a 82cc port volume. I know these arent greatest flow numbers out there but i am keeping port sizes conservative so heads will work well on med. cammed 346". This flow is with Ferrea 2.02" intake valve and 1.60" exh. Fwiw, my intake flows 325cfm at .675" lift, i see that these would make great solid roller race heads on a 346" or larger LS1. I have several other tricks up my sleeve to try and get flow higher with out increasing port size but this head should be good for 450+ rwhp with decent hydraulic cam as is! Chambers are 62.5 cc with small mods to it and Ferrea valves.
Thanks for asking and i will update as my progress continues.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Oh, i just want to clarify that these numbers are same as i posted a while back, but those numbers were with stock valves, and my new #'s are with aftermarket valves. It took a lot of work to match stock valve flow, now i can concentrate on improving past this point. I still like stock valves best for best flow! Nobody wants to hear it but its true!
<small>[ February 09, 2003, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: LS1derfull ]</small>
<strong> LS1derfull,
On a side note, how are your LS6 heads coming along? Just curious.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No problem, i have 305cfm at .575" with a 225cc intake port and exh. is 211 cfm at .575" with a 82cc port volume. I know these arent greatest flow numbers out there but i am keeping port sizes conservative so heads will work well on med. cammed 346". This flow is with Ferrea 2.02" intake valve and 1.60" exh. Fwiw, my intake flows 325cfm at .675" lift, i see that these would make great solid roller race heads on a 346" or larger LS1. I have several other tricks up my sleeve to try and get flow higher with out increasing port size but this head should be good for 450+ rwhp with decent hydraulic cam as is! Chambers are 62.5 cc with small mods to it and Ferrea valves.
Thanks for asking and i will update as my progress continues.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Oh, i just want to clarify that these numbers are same as i posted a while back, but those numbers were with stock valves, and my new #'s are with aftermarket valves. It took a lot of work to match stock valve flow, now i can concentrate on improving past this point. I still like stock valves best for best flow! Nobody wants to hear it but its true!
<small>[ February 09, 2003, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: LS1derfull ]</small>