MS3 or MS4 Daily Driver
Crap I have 843 heads...is this bad compared to the 241's....if I plan to go with a tr224 or tsp228 cam would the fact that I have 843's hurt the performance....would you put springs in a 843 or spend the money to polish them or should I just buy LS6 heads or better? I have a funny feeling I am going to spend more money than I thought...but I have that horsepower bug bitting me and I want to do it right the first time...car only has 40k miles
Both of those cams are small enough to give you great performance cam-only, then give you a solid foundation later for the heads of your choice when the money tree has replenished your mod stash.
Also, the best piece of advice I can give you is don't get hung up on a number. Make the car run the way you want, and let the numbers fall where they may.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Saint Charles, MO
Don't worry about the heads. There is very little difference between the 843's and 241's. The 'as cast' port has a slightly better surface unported, but nothing the butt-dyno could really pickup. Maybe 5hp difference.
Both of those cams are small enough to give you great performance cam-only, then give you a solid foundation later for the heads of your choice when the money tree has replenished your mod stash.
Also, the best piece of advice I can give you is don't get hung up on a number. Make the car run the way you want, and let the numbers fall where they may.
Both of those cams are small enough to give you great performance cam-only, then give you a solid foundation later for the heads of your choice when the money tree has replenished your mod stash.
Also, the best piece of advice I can give you is don't get hung up on a number. Make the car run the way you want, and let the numbers fall where they may.
so i have a a4 car full bolt ons and i`m doing my trans right now with a 3600 stall and i`m going to use 3.42`s and run a 175 shot
my problem is no one has stated how`d it work with nitous, is this going to be a bad combo? also i`m shooting for mid 10`s
my problem is no one has stated how`d it work with nitous, is this going to be a bad combo? also i`m shooting for mid 10`s
Most people say that the MS3 & MS4 cams respond very well to nitrous.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, AL.
OP, let me give you a fair warning. The same warning that i wished i would have gotten. There is no "safe setup" as far as switching cams/heads. Yesterday my car got dynoed. It put down 435 rwhp, with basically no tune (it was getting tuned). Next pull, spun bearing. Just like that, I have a shortblock that is basically worthless. I have to pull the engine, and probably either have it rebuilt or buy a forged block and have it reinstalled. And I got ALL the goodies that people say you need to be safe. Ls6 oil pump, timing chain, rockers, pushrods, upgraded springs. I even did the drivetrain, 9" rear, driveshat, viper main t56, clutch. I went with a mild cam as well (much smaller than either one of the ones you are considering). The car had 25,000 miles on it, which is relatively low mileage. I am not trying to discourage you from putting a cam in your car. Lots of people do it, and have relatively no problems. They do it on blocks with over 100,000 miles and spray a 200 shot and their cars run strong for long periods of time. But you need to understand the risks involved here. Good luck in whatever you decide to do, but don't let anyone tell you that such and such setup is 100% safe.
The general consensus is that unless you are pushing a 200 shot or more, that a cam is a cam. Only above that point should you begin to worry about a larger exhaust split or wider LSA. Even then, the VE's still need to be there to do what you want off the bottle too.
Most people say that the MS3 & MS4 cams respond very well to nitrous.
Most people say that the MS3 & MS4 cams respond very well to nitrous.
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it all depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for a big cam with an agressive idle that will make some decent power cam only then go with something like the MS3 and MS4. Most of your driveablilty is in a tune, if you don't get a solid tune on your car, especially a cam like the MS3/MS4 you will see issues like some of these people have decribed. I personally daily drive an MS3/PRC headed car and absolutely enjoy it, i got a great tune and the car drives great even with stock 3.42 gearing. If you are looking for something fairly aggressive but not as big as the MS4 look at the Torquer v.3, it has the same aggressive lobes but less duration. This gives the cam more power and low end torque while still keeping the driveability of a smaller cam. Either way with a good tune almost any cam is driveable. Good Luck with your build. 
That wasn't people that was me. And I thought I explained myself really well. Call Texas Speed and ask them if a Magic Stick is going to drive like a stock car. Its not going to be as bad for you because your a auto with a high stall and 4.10 gears, for a manual its not going to be ideal for a DD.
But I mean what am I thinking my 230's cam doesn't drive like stock, maybe I should go to a magic stick so my driveability will be better.
But I mean what am I thinking my 230's cam doesn't drive like stock, maybe I should go to a magic stick so my driveability will be better.
Like it's been said over and over it's all about the TUNE! Good tune good running car. Just makes sense. I went to TSP and had them tune it for me. Got the car home and it ran like crap! So I took it to another guy and the car runs great! I can stick the car in 6th at 50 mph and just cruse along no problems and as far as taking off from lights and city stop and go the car does great.
I also have to say I'm glad I don't have the "low end torque” that I guess I don't have when I'm spinning all the way through 1st and most of 2nd. (granted that I have 4.10’s in my S60).
So much is in the tune, from drivability to performance to gas milage. I think the biggest issues with most shops is that the tune focuses on two things: idle and WOT.
I am close to purchasing EFILive V2, and if it's anything like tuning OBDI stuff, it takes a lot of data logging at part throttle. Then making changes to the bin, and logging some more, etc, until you are satisfied. You can't really blame the busy shops for this. But for a DD, the time invested will pay off. I can't wait to start tuning the OBDII (it's just a damn shame it's so expensive).
I am close to purchasing EFILive V2, and if it's anything like tuning OBDI stuff, it takes a lot of data logging at part throttle. Then making changes to the bin, and logging some more, etc, until you are satisfied. You can't really blame the busy shops for this. But for a DD, the time invested will pay off. I can't wait to start tuning the OBDII (it's just a damn shame it's so expensive).
I've got a M6 and I still think it drives just fine.
Like it's been said over and over it's all about the TUNE! Good tune good running car. Just makes sense. I went to TSP and had them tune it for me. Got the car home and it ran like crap! So I took it to another guy and the car runs great! I can stick the car in 6th at 50 mph and just cruse along no problems and as far as taking off from lights and city stop and go the car does great.
I also have to say I'm glad I don't have the "low end torque” that I guess I don't have when I'm spinning all the way through 1st and most of 2nd. (granted that I have 4.10’s in my S60).
Like it's been said over and over it's all about the TUNE! Good tune good running car. Just makes sense. I went to TSP and had them tune it for me. Got the car home and it ran like crap! So I took it to another guy and the car runs great! I can stick the car in 6th at 50 mph and just cruse along no problems and as far as taking off from lights and city stop and go the car does great.
I also have to say I'm glad I don't have the "low end torque” that I guess I don't have when I'm spinning all the way through 1st and most of 2nd. (granted that I have 4.10’s in my S60).
OP, let me give you a fair warning. The same warning that i wished i would have gotten. There is no "safe setup" as far as switching cams/heads. Yesterday my car got dynoed. It put down 435 rwhp, with basically no tune (it was getting tuned). Next pull, spun bearing. Just like that, I have a shortblock that is basically worthless. I have to pull the engine, and probably either have it rebuilt or buy a forged block and have it reinstalled. And I got ALL the goodies that people say you need to be safe. Ls6 oil pump, timing chain, rockers, pushrods, upgraded springs. I even did the drivetrain, 9" rear, driveshat, viper main t56, clutch. I went with a mild cam as well (much smaller than either one of the ones you are considering). The car had 25,000 miles on it, which is relatively low mileage. I am not trying to discourage you from putting a cam in your car. Lots of people do it, and have relatively no problems. They do it on blocks with over 100,000 miles and spray a 200 shot and their cars run strong for long periods of time. But you need to understand the risks involved here. Good luck in whatever you decide to do, but don't let anyone tell you that such and such setup is 100% safe.
Yeah I'm not really happy with my tune. It was expensive for one $575 and then it was surging a little bit around 1600 so I took it back to them and they made it out like I was just being a picky bitch. If I had it to do over again I would buy HP tuners and do it myself. I won't say the name of the shop because they're are a sponser here, but they are very big shop with a good reputation. But I don't see how they got it. Anybody that's debating between the two, taking it somewhere or doing it yourself. Do it yourself.
shooting for 450+ to the wheels. 
hahaha yeah but like i said a newb trying to tune those cam's is near impossible. not enough experience to know what the cam wants, with that big of a cam you have to pull all your notes out to tune correctly....with out damaging your engine in the process. again i'm takling about newb tuners