MS3 or MS4 Daily Driver
The curve between the pat g and the MS4 seem to be pretty close from 3.5K
up to about 5500 where the MS4 starts to really shine putting down around 20hp more till redline! I really didn't get to see what these cars do below 3,000 but that is where you just drop a gear and let that clutch hold on for dear life! Again seems like torque and horsepower are pretty close until about 5.5K! I guess the reason one would choose the pat g over the MS4 is the everyday driving around 2k to 3k, I would assume would be much smoother! Am I getting close to understanding this?!?! The everyday driving range is more importnat to me than 20hp in the last 1000 to 1500 RPM's!
up to about 5500 where the MS4 starts to really shine putting down around 20hp more till redline! I really didn't get to see what these cars do below 3,000 but that is where you just drop a gear and let that clutch hold on for dear life! Again seems like torque and horsepower are pretty close until about 5.5K! I guess the reason one would choose the pat g over the MS4 is the everyday driving around 2k to 3k, I would assume would be much smoother! Am I getting close to understanding this?!?! The everyday driving range is more importnat to me than 20hp in the last 1000 to 1500 RPM's!
If I had to guess the Magic Stick would probably make 5-10 more peak hp then the cam I'm running on stock heads. After ported heads and or a fast 90 the difference would likely be more substantial.
Last edited by rocksws6; Feb 25, 2008 at 06:24 PM.
Your looking at #'s there's alot of Magic Stick cars out there that stay right around 400 whp some don't even break it. Then you have chris with almost the exact cam I do and he put down 418 to my 397. The only way you can look at #'s is same dyno, same car. Do you see what I'm getting at?
If I had to guess the Magic Stick would probably make 5-10 more peak hp then the cam I'm running on stock heads. After ported heads and or a fast 90 the difference would likely be more substantial.
If I had to guess the Magic Stick would probably make 5-10 more peak hp then the cam I'm running on stock heads. After ported heads and or a fast 90 the difference would likely be more substantial.
oh and i am 422hp
ha You guys with driving issues and lower MS3/MS4 numbers...
What is your milage and did you change the chain or check for too much slack? When I installed my 233/230/605 TSP at 80K, my chain was stretched to the extreme so I changed it. I am just trying to justify variables.
What is your milage and did you change the chain or check for too much slack? When I installed my 233/230/605 TSP at 80K, my chain was stretched to the extreme so I changed it. I am just trying to justify variables.
Now the MS4 is ground to be more street friendly than the MS3. And I've got to admit I've never rode or drove a Camaro with a MS4/MS3 in a M6 car. But in an A4/Stall convertor car you can fire it up. Put it it in drive and from then on you have the option of taking off like a preacher going to church or the devil heading home. Your car will pull itself around at will at idle and I love mine. But to each his own.
Ive been running around with the MS4 for over a year now. I love it overall but there are times where it really pisses me off. On the highway in sixth gear it does not want to maintain speed. It starts slowing and if I put a bit more throttle into it, it starts knocking. Traffic driving really sucks. You have to slip the clutch a lot. The cam definately bucks under 2000 RPM with light loads. With heavier loads its better but Id rather down shift than lug it. I have no problem starting it or idling. Jeremy did an awesome job tuning it. We spent about 7 hours on it. I had a TR224 cam before the MS4. Even though the numbers were nothing special with that cam, the way the car drove was amazing. So much low end that I didnt have to downshift on the highwya all the time or to beat a red light or to pass someone.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 33
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From: Saint Charles, MO
Okay we just got a lot of MS4 lovers to post.
I really think that the heads will stay stock on my car ....maybe a polish if it is worth it, but again I only have 40,000 miles and would like to get the full value out of my motor! Without changing major components, like heads or the short block! And I really dont want to launch to hard on my little rear end! By the way what was GM thinking on that one? 10" HAHA
So since I know I want to keep stock heads, I think that the gains from a pat g cam would be enough, but I haven't heard from anyone on how well it drives around town! I hear different stories about the MS4 but nobody talks about the driving characteristics from the pat g or 224 cams.
I really think that the heads will stay stock on my car ....maybe a polish if it is worth it, but again I only have 40,000 miles and would like to get the full value out of my motor! Without changing major components, like heads or the short block! And I really dont want to launch to hard on my little rear end! By the way what was GM thinking on that one? 10" HAHA
So since I know I want to keep stock heads, I think that the gains from a pat g cam would be enough, but I haven't heard from anyone on how well it drives around town! I hear different stories about the MS4 but nobody talks about the driving characteristics from the pat g or 224 cams.
oh there is **** load's of info on those cams, they are basically beginner cams, everyone starts on those cams and depending on where they want their car to go get larger, or stay with that one. search up on the tr224, back in the early years that cam was considered "HUGE" but it's a GREAT daily cam, you WILL be happy with that sized cam for a daily
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Verdad Gallardo Okay we just got a lot of MS4 lovers to post.
I really think that the heads will stay stock on my car ....maybe a polish if it is worth it, but again I only have 40,000 miles and would like to get the full value out of my motor! Without changing major components, like heads or the short block! And I really dont want to launch to hard on my little rear end! By the way what was GM thinking on that one? 10" HAHA
So since I know I want to keep stock heads, I think that the gains from a pat g cam would be enough, but I haven't heard from anyone on how well it drives around town! I hear different stories about the MS4 but nobody talks about the driving characteristics from the pat g or 224 cams.
I really think that the heads will stay stock on my car ....maybe a polish if it is worth it, but again I only have 40,000 miles and would like to get the full value out of my motor! Without changing major components, like heads or the short block! And I really dont want to launch to hard on my little rear end! By the way what was GM thinking on that one? 10" HAHA
So since I know I want to keep stock heads, I think that the gains from a pat g cam would be enough, but I haven't heard from anyone on how well it drives around town! I hear different stories about the MS4 but nobody talks about the driving characteristics from the pat g or 224 cams.
It is really all about the tune.
I have an MS4 and a Yank 4000 stall, and the car is fine for daily driving. I have virtually no surging and the bucking on deceleration is almost non-existant.
You can dial ANY cam in for daily driver use if you have a good tune.
Rumpity-Rumpity...
...oh, and it put 430 to the rear wheels through the Yank PT4000.
I have an MS4 and a Yank 4000 stall, and the car is fine for daily driving. I have virtually no surging and the bucking on deceleration is almost non-existant.
You can dial ANY cam in for daily driver use if you have a good tune.
Rumpity-Rumpity...
...oh, and it put 430 to the rear wheels through the Yank PT4000.
and just for ***** and giggleshttps://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/683617-do-any-shops-market-small-cams-anymore-why-not.html
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 33
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From: Saint Charles, MO
New comers want the biggest and badest and the vendrs want cash..plain and simple, however I have read that most lendors will try to talk sense into you but ultimatley they just supply for the demand!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 33
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From: Saint Charles, MO
Crap I have 843 heads...is this bad compared to the 241's....if I plan to go with a tr224 or tsp228 cam would the fact that I have 843's hurt the performance....would you put springs in a 843 or spend the money to polish them or should I just buy LS6 heads or better? I have a funny feeling I am going to spend more money than I thought...but I have that horsepower bug bitting me and I want to do it right the first time...car only has 40k miles