MS3 or MS4 Daily Driver
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Saint Charles, MO
MS3 or MS4 Daily Driver 2000 Trans Am Ram Air M6
On my daily driver with just an SLP LID and Smooth Bellow and cut out currently.
Question is I am going to install (maybe kooks) Long tubes after I sell the current SLP LONG TUBE SET I NEVER INSTALLED, and was wondering on a daily driver what would be a smarter cam choice a MS3 or a MS4.....by smarter I mean the car only has 40,000 miles and dont feel like rebuilding the motor do to being "on the edge" of safe! I know the safest route would be not to change it....but of course I want more power! What other supporting mods or actions would I have to do or take in order to acomplish a strong running motor that can be daily driven with minimal worries!
All I know is the only difference is the MS3 is a 608 intake lift with a 112 lobe
and the MS4 is a 649 intake lift with a 111 lobe! <-- I think I am right!
Would the MS3 be the safer choice and at what expense to horsepower.(how much less power would I make), or would power just be moved down the rpm band! And actually more enjoyable for the street! Or is the MS4 just and upgraded design compared to the MS3! And the reliability is the same?
On my daily driver with just an SLP LID and Smooth Bellow and cut out currently.
Question is I am going to install (maybe kooks) Long tubes after I sell the current SLP LONG TUBE SET I NEVER INSTALLED, and was wondering on a daily driver what would be a smarter cam choice a MS3 or a MS4.....by smarter I mean the car only has 40,000 miles and dont feel like rebuilding the motor do to being "on the edge" of safe! I know the safest route would be not to change it....but of course I want more power! What other supporting mods or actions would I have to do or take in order to acomplish a strong running motor that can be daily driven with minimal worries!
All I know is the only difference is the MS3 is a 608 intake lift with a 112 lobe
and the MS4 is a 649 intake lift with a 111 lobe! <-- I think I am right!
Would the MS3 be the safer choice and at what expense to horsepower.(how much less power would I make), or would power just be moved down the rpm band! And actually more enjoyable for the street! Or is the MS4 just and upgraded design compared to the MS3! And the reliability is the same?
My cam has a higher duration than the MS4 and more lift on the exhaust side. I've noticed driving in tight traffic can be a pain cause of the low vacuum. If I'm inching forward and consistently pushing the clutch in and braking, the car will drop idle. That and to take off I'm at higher RPMs than normal so the motor doesn't die. All and all, it's a little harder on parts IMO. Might not be the best for a DD, so the M3 would probably be the best.
I'm sure others will reply with more info.
I'm sure others will reply with more info.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Saint Charles, MO
What should I expect to pay for someone to install the cam whichever I choose....I sure which I had some more opinions and personal experiences with this cam on stock heads! Am I gonna get more power out of the MS4 compared to the MS3 on stock heads or will my stockers not flow enough to take advantage of the extra lift! Should I be looking at even a smaller cam?????
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I run the MS3 in my auto with a 3400 stall and it drives just fine, I ran the MS4 on a 110lsa in my M6, it ran really good but sucked in traffic like stated earlier, lots of bucking and surging at low rpm's, if those are you two main choices then I say the MS3. Hope this helps
What should I expect to pay for someone to install the cam whichever I choose....I sure which I had some more opinions and personal experiences with this cam on stock heads! Am I gonna get more power out of the MS4 compared to the MS3 on stock heads or will my stockers not flow enough to take advantage of the extra lift! Should I be looking at even a smaller cam?????
What should I expect to pay for someone to install the cam whichever I choose....I sure which I had some more opinions and personal experiences with this cam on stock heads! Am I gonna get more power out of the MS4 compared to the MS3 on stock heads or will my stockers not flow enough to take advantage of the extra lift! Should I be looking at even a smaller cam?????
I wont argue that MS3 and MS4 cams make great power. But I will argue that some other smaller cams will have alot better mid-range that could really come into play on the street. Cars with smaller cams beat cars with larger ones all the time. Bigger isnt always better. I personally run a 231/237 592 603 111.5 and I am very happy with it.
And no offense to Camaro396 , but I would NOT do like him and drive a cam un-tuned. Especially a large one like MS4.
If it's your daily driver I wouldn't go bigger than a mid to low 230's duration cam. For stock heads and M6 the TR230 kicks *** and is very drivable. To answer your question the MS3 will drive slightly better than the MS4, but both will have surging and bucking issues at low RPM. The MS4 will make power lower in the revs and peak a little sooner. The peak numbers will be close between the two, but the MS4 will have a little more bottom end.
I wouldn't run a cam that big in a daily driver. I have a 231/233 on a 111 LSA and it kinda gets annoying every once in a while. Its not so bad to where I can't tolerate it but I wouldn't want to go any bigger on a DD and with the power band I got out of it it would be a waste to go bigger. I'll post up a link to my dyno sheet here in a sec.
Here ya go: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=patrick+cam
Here ya go: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=patrick+cam
those two cam choices are on top of the bad list for daily driving. i had the ms4 and swapped it like only 1500 miles into it to a smaller 226. drove that one for less than 2000 miles and swapped that in for a stock cam again (cuss of the turbo 
) those donkey dick cams are worthless on the street. you loose all your low end grunt and have to give it more gas. choose a smaller cam for dailying. the more radical the cam the more upkeep you have to do to it, specially dailying it
) those donkey dick cams are worthless on the street. you loose all your low end grunt and have to give it more gas. choose a smaller cam for dailying. the more radical the cam the more upkeep you have to do to it, specially dailying it 
What should I expect to pay for someone to install the cam whichever I choose....I sure which I had some more opinions and personal experiences with this cam on stock heads! Am I gonna get more power out of the MS4 compared to the MS3 on stock heads or will my stockers not flow enough to take advantage of the extra lift! Should I be looking at even a smaller cam?????
oh and as long as you tune the car decently you can dd it with an ms3/ms4 cam just fine
Carefully consider the tune. 99% of the aforementioned drivability issues are related to a suck *** tune. Three pulls on the dyno and a pat on the head as you are escorted out the door are not going to cut it.
On the flip side of the coin, a properly tuned 224-228-230ish with ~.600" cam will give you plenty of the DD power you seek. Higher lift cams will increase the frequency of maintenance on the valve train.
Bigger is not always better, only you can answer what your ultimate goals are.
On the flip side of the coin, a properly tuned 224-228-230ish with ~.600" cam will give you plenty of the DD power you seek. Higher lift cams will increase the frequency of maintenance on the valve train.
Bigger is not always better, only you can answer what your ultimate goals are.
those two cam choices are on top of the bad list for daily driving. i had the ms4 and swapped it like only 1500 miles into it to a smaller 226. drove that one for less than 2000 miles and swapped that in for a stock cam again (cuss of the turbo ) those donkey dick cams are worthless on the street. you loose all your low end grunt and have to give it more gas. choose a smaller cam for dailying. the more radical the cam the more upkeep you have to do to it, specially dailying it
) those donkey dick cams are worthless on the street. you loose all your low end grunt and have to give it more gas. choose a smaller cam for dailying. the more radical the cam the more upkeep you have to do to it, specially dailying it sig says 4000 stal and 4.10 gears.... that factors into the DD deal.... throws the revs up high so you dont have to deal with the sloppy low end, where a street car spends 90 percent of the time