Mad Max

I am looking to get some stage II heads (cam/headers too), and am trying to decide on which set to get. Price is of concern (I would like to stay under 1800.00 - I know there are some other heads available, but in my price range have concluded that one of these sets will end up on my car.
I have read a lot of opinions about CNC vs. Hand porting. Your opinions please. Also, which heads are pulling good dyno #'s and which are pulling down better track times? Help me decide here.
I want my car to remain streetable and pass emissions - oh and you know, looking to get the magic 400rwhp #'s. The car is a M6. I only want to do this once - so I want to do it right.
And yes I have read a lot of previous posts - that is why I have narrowed it down to these 3.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

400rwhp certainly can be done with Absolute/TEA. The Patriot's are new enough that I've not seen dyno results, so I don't know. As for cost you can get a decent set of heads for $1800 or less.

CNC is consistant and a good starting point but CNC can't reach some areas due to the size of the CNC tip. As I understand it the tip is about 1/2 inch diameter so while CNCing the exhaust ports can be done, there are likely spots that can only be touched up by hand. Hand porting is only as good as the hand porter. The best hand ported heads are outstanding.

I'll toss out another option for you to consider, MTI Stage I's are about $1800...

slow01z28

iTrader: (9)

Why not a cam only car?
Then you could do heads later.
There is some cam only cars that hit 400 RWHP with a M-6 with bolt ons.
Just a thought

Formula 1

iTrader: (5)

I would go cam and nitrous!

Mad Max

I know MTI makes good heads - but 1800 is on the upper end of what I wanted to spend - actually I have seen other brand stage II heads for like 1500, which would leave me some cam $$.
As for doing a cam only car, I have read a lot about valve train wear, and really don't want to be messing with valve springs @ 10 or 15K - plus I can use a milder cam with heads (thus the emission part).
As for Nitrous - well, thats after I do the rest and get the "it just needs a little more" itch.

So hand porting is in some ways better than CNC, but CNC is more consistent.

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

TEA and AS have both run GP's for their heads and they were in the 1250-1350 range for single spring setups, and 1450-1500 for dual springs. I got 5.3 dual spring heads from TEA for 1470.

This is my opinion, and my opinion alone. I see more high dyno numbers from AS than TEA, but I see better track times from TEA. Its a few TEA cars in the 435-445 range, and its a few AS cars in that same range. Both heads are tick for tac.. its a toss up between them.

I would call TEA and AS and go from there. You make you own decision and not what others think. More than likely someone with AS will say TEA's suck and get AS, or someone with TEA will say go TEA all tha way. Im saying either is the best bang for the buck! Good luck... might as well flip a quarter though

slow01z28

iTrader: (9)

I really dont think you can do heads and cam for $1800.

Heads $1500 to 2500
Cam $400
push rods $120 at least
Gasket set and head bolts $150 for gm
Tuning $550
Long tube headers $700-1400
Dyno time $100/hr and up
And not including itstall unless you do it your self
I am just saying if it was me i would do long tube headers and a cam and all the bolt ons first then the heads at a later date.
This is just my $.02 Not trying to tell you go in a differant route. Heads and cam for $1800 is hard to do.
I am going to buy a set of TEA heads just from other people I know.
Thats why I did cam and bolt ons first then Ill buy the heads

gomer

iTrader: (13)

Heads $1,300
used cam $250
pushrods $100
total $1,650
that plus my headers is all I have and I'm at that "magic" 400rwhp level without a pulley, tb, cutout, or tuning and on a "baby" cam that sounds almost stock. Patriot's $1,300 heads with springs and NO core charge can't be beat.

ne14a6t9

I know its hard to make the choice becuase it has to be the right one for the money and hastle to get thm installed, I am in the same boat of three to choos from except my choices are gtp, absolute or jpr. In my opinion it seems the hand porters have a considerable edge of the cnc'rs. I have been researching this for a while now and while this is only my opinion it seems the average dyno from the cnc companies are down 20 hp over the hand ported 3. Do a search like I did and you will see this. you have to look out for the pushers and cheerleaders for all these companies. for ex gomer is pushing patriot and doesnt tell you he only gained 19hp and 10 ft torque adding the patriot heads. no offense to gomer who seems like a good guy but he is just an example, do a search, call the companies and good luck with your decision

H82BBad

I have my TEA heads for sale for 1100.00 shipped. I can also hook you up on a cam. I am going larger cubic inch so I need some larger heads. 400 rwhp is not that hard to do in an m-6.


BTW I am going with another set of TEA heads.

mike#9

iTrader: (3)

I have a set of Absolte Speed stage 2 5.3's coming... w/ a hefty cam. I went with Jay's (Absolute) heads because after long research.. and talking to all the competitors (TEA, Raging Motorsports.. etc. Jay sold me and impressed me the most with his combination of price, service, and a lot of knowledge... and probably the most important... honesty!!

Not saying that the rest are not all of those things... it is just that I did not get the same gut feeling like I did when talking with Jay.

As for performance... TEA and Absolute for the money... and even with money put aside... are making the same and probably more power than any other head porter out there. They both are great... I say talk to Brent from TEA, and Jay from Absolute Speed... and just go with the gut, and the research.

Good luck!!

P.S. It took me about 1 year and staying up almost every night til' 2-3 a.m. reading about heads and cams before I narrowed my decision, and finally made it!!

Mad Max

Thanks for you input thus far. I am not trying to start anything - just wanted opinions as to why you may have gone with one or the other.
As for the 1800 - that is my limit, if I can find a nice set for 1300, that is all the better. This is my summer driver, so when I do the work, the car will be "down" for the winter. I know some of you guys are smoking good at doing this work to your cars, but I really only want to do this all once. I will probably do the heads/cam first, then do the LT headers and dyno tune last. My only concern thus far is probably that I have not seen enough cars with Patriot heads - yet.

gomer

iTrader: (13)

I don't have tuning, but the "expert" above failed to mention that. Yes, I did gain 23rwhp with my heads.. but LOOK at the cam I'm running, so many people.. like our "expert" above only see peak numbers and don't realize that some of us go for small cams that sound stock. If I had a damn 23x/23x duration .59x lift cam.. yeah, I would have probably gained 40rwhp with my heads. I'm not going to push anybodys heads unless I feel like they were a good deal, anybody that says $1,300 on a set of stage 2 heads with springs and no core charge isn't a GREAT deal, hasn't been looking at heads long. I looked for almost a year before I made my decision, and I haven't regretted it a second. I'd rather save my money for other mods. Because I just checked thunder's website and a set of stage II GTP's with dual springs are $2,499 then add a $500 core charge.. for a total of $2,999.00 That's a difference of $1,699.. I like to go fast.. but I'm not EVER paying that for a set of heads that may gain 10rwhp over the ones I have now.

TVWilkes

In my CNC ported heads,I reach every area that I desire to hit.

If Hand porting is so great,why is it that all major forms of racing(Winston cup,NHRA ect..)uses cnc to port their heads?

Reckless

iTrader: (9)

I have TEA heads also. When my motor let go, I bent an intake valve, so I sent them to Jay at Absolute speed for repair and touch up. If you want TEA heads (2.02/1.58), then call Jay and buy mine. They are available. Jay is gong to do a new set for me for my new build-up.

JPR

"

Yes, they are pre production roughed out by CNC, but initial mapping program was dirived from a hand port, they are hand blended afterwards for final flow figures with hardly any traces of CNC tool marks left behind when there complete, E-mail me for Gary Acres phone number, he is the head of the R&D shop for Hendrick Motorsports and he will tell you that personally if you don't believe me.


JP

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

I got TEA's cause 2 of my friends on here and locally(phill99vette/hardtop) both have them and ran in the 11.2-3's. Plus they had a awesome GP price at the time I was looking. Like I said, you would be more than happy with either one! good luck

TVWilkes

I am very aware of how the winston cup folks perform.I have witnessed it first hand.Yes,they do finish the heads by hand after the CNC.I also hand finish the heads after the CNC.I hand ported a model so I could get the data from it to create the CNC.Hand porting is a form of art work,I'm not arguing that.I just want the CNC to get the credit it deserves.It is a very difficult to duplicate a hand ported model for the CNC.It takes many hours to come up with the final program.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Check out the graph from our last patriot head & TSP camshaft install. This is a automatic car with a verter, and mac headers. When this car gets long tubes & a pulley I think it'll be over 400rwhp through the auto!


The current price for the heads & cam kit is 1889.99 which includes:
Stage 2 Patiot 5.3L (or 5.7) heads
Choice of TSP Camshaft!
Double Valve Springs
2.02 157 valves
TSP Hardened Pushrods
Rollmaster Double Roller Heat Treated Timing Set

Not to mention Terry still gives credit back for your stock heads! Call me if you have any questions on heads & cam setups!

slow01z28

iTrader: (9)

what was the size of the cam on the install? above?