TuffSS

iTrader: (6)

I'm considering buying a custom ground TR cam. Specs are 231/238 .617/.605 113+2 lsa. Car is 2000 SS M6 and will be cam only for a little while atleast. My biggest concern about this cam is will it clear the pistons without flycutting???? Can I put this in a stock LS1 shortblock with boltons and roll???? Perfect cam would perhaps be a CheaTR variation as I will be running ported exhaust manifolds and not headers.

Any insight? I'm worried about the lift numbers for my situation.

And I need to make a choice on it quickly, like tonight. Other option an MTI R1 cam is also available. Not sure which way to go.

chuckyt1

iTrader: (33)

Well first I will say, don't put a big cam in without checking PTV. Second - I put a 243/248 613/620 110 lsa T Rex in an '02 and the ptv was very tight. But it did clear. I ended up flycutting anyway...

If I were a betting man, (I'm not), I'd say it would fit.

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

a 231/238 113+2 should fit fine.

ignore max lift, it's irrelevent to ptv clearance.

TuffSS

iTrader: (6)

OK, cool .........and PTV clearance will absolutely be checked.

Next question in my mind is.........is this just going to be more cam duration than I want to run. I mean, I know I'll dig a cool idle but I have been more and more impressed in the last several years to see cars that perform strong, but actually have decent lower rpm range power and can behave somewhat mellow when your just wanting to put around and not make alot of noise. Oh, the compromises. Until this cam popped up on my radar I had been thinking of nearly 10 degrees less atleast on the intake. I was also thinking less lift for a safer setup lol. Damnit, decisions decisions.

Would staying with a modded LS1 intake and it's smaller runner/plenum volume have any effect of slightly tuning a cam like this down? Or helping the lower rpm range much?

Thanks much, I am a little off gaurd and behind in researching for a cam choice.

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

it's a biggerish medium cam.

your valve events will look close to this @ .050 (I have to use a 230 duration XFI lobe for the intake):

IVO - 4 degrees btdc
IVC - 46 degrees abdc - peak will be around 6400-6500, you'll want to shift around 6700
EVO - 54 degrees bbdc - medium torque in the midrange, tq peak will be a bit higher
EVC - 4 degrees atdc
overlap - 8.5 degrees @ .050 - noticeable lope, but easier to tune for a good idle and gas mileage.


Overlap is pretty well centered over TDC, so it should pull well after the peak.. the problem is the LS1 intake manifold, it's really going to choke the power down, and it will fall of a lot faster after peak.

And as far as lift, don't be scared, you're going to run dual valvesprings more than likely, and they can handle the aggressive ramp rates of today's cam lobes.

My cam's intake lobe measured out at 228.7 degrees duration, and .644 lift, running it for a year now with standard Patriot duals, no hint of valve float yet.

JScamaro

iTrader: (6)

I just ordered a similar cam. Its a low 230 duration on the intake and high 230 on the exhaust.

I've spoken with many sponsors and they recommended to run a .040 head gasket and mill to 62cc. I have the Trickflow heads so they will offer a little better ptv clearance though.

TuffSS

iTrader: (6)

Well, thanks a million. You guys rock, I appreciate the killer info/specifics. I spoke with TR earlier and untill I switch to headers I'm screwed. Problem is, I won't be switching to headers real soon.

So, I need to come up with a cam that will suit my needs with manifolds. Likely, a CheaTR variation or LPE variation.

I was getting stoked about the cam, but the manifolds even ported will proove to be quite a hinderence when it comes to cams with any overlap.

Apparently zero benefit from any scavenging so, minimal overlap will be my friend atleast for a few yet.

Now, I just need to find that cam. Seems it could be trickier, considering the constraints.

PREDATOR-Z

224/232 .609/.595 112+2 LSA

custom, that is what I would recommend.

TuffSS

iTrader: (6)

Hey, thanks much for the input. Those specs look very interesting (Very). What would you expect the power range to be with something like that?

I've got some OE 4.11's, along with an OE Auburn upgraded with Pro Series springs that I will be installing in the little 10 bolt grenade here shortly. Can't beleive the Torsen hasn't come apart yet with the noises it's making. I have an OE nodular 9" 3rd ready and waiting as well for the 9 swap that will likely have to take place at some point. Have wanted to try some M&H 28" drag radials, but am affraid to bother before the 9 swap.

Also, have been sitting on a ported/epoxied LS6 intake manifold from a now disolved Pontiac Daytona Prototype race team. This intake was done by Wilson for that race series. It has a removeable bottom cover for access internally. Though, when I look into it, really the work they did looks somewhat minimal considering these darn things originally cost $1000 to $1500 according to Wilson. But, I may also just not be seeing all the work they actually did to it.



So, the above recomended cam specs would work well cam only and no headers for the time being???? Those look like pretty good specs, the more I stare at them. Seems like it would come on fairly low for a good street useable power range. Makes me wonder if it would work well with less gear than my intended 4.11's. I do have an M6 just to clarify. Hmmmm, liking those numbers. Thanks for the recomendation PREDATOR-Z, again really appreciate it.

redz_02

iTrader: (4)

Smart guy, got to remember these are not solid rollers so the advertised numbers may varry due to the valve train.

That is a huge split, I would like to know the characteristics of this cam. Looks like it is set up for stock manifolds.

If you are looking for a different cam I would look into what Pred recomended, seems to satisfy alot of peoples needs. Hell I think the vendors tried to get him banned at one point. Anyways good luck.

TuffSS

iTrader: (6)

PTV clearance will be checked and double or triple checked. Thats my MO on previous other work/engine builds I've done in the past, so I'm not going to get lazy at that point with whats at stake. Plus, having worked in machine shops in the past, I know it's all about the checking and confirming things are setup correctly.



Yes, I am needing a killer/good cam to still work with just ported exhaust manifolds. Atleast for a little while. The car won't be seeing headers anytime real soon. Also, likely won't be doing the heads real soon either, but that could change if I saw a deal I couldn't pass up I suppose.

So, yes........now need something with no overlap to work with the manifolds. Overlap will only be a negative, as my understanding from talking with Geoff of TR is that the manifolds just can't take advantage of any scavenging effect. Hence the need for a big split (really minimal overlap) in any cam selection for manifolds.

Thanks a bunch, this forum rocks for good useable help and input.



So, everybody agree with the above latest cam recomendation from PREDATOR-Z???? I'm liking it, and think it sounds pretty decent. Curious about some more details connected with those specs, as in rpm range, or anything else such as overlap and or comparisons to say a CheaTR.

.

SOMbitch

iTrader: (8)

I think you will like that Pred-Z cam Pm him and get the lobe #'s so you can order it.

TuffSS

iTrader: (6)

Will do, thanks. Sounds like more good advice.

PREDATOR-Z

Hi TufSS,
I replied to your PM.

In addition these are the valve events at .050

0.050
224/232
112 LSA
110 ICL


2>IVO
42>IVC
50>EVO
2>EVC
114> ECL
4* Overlap

This cam will make more power than CheaTR (in your motor) because of the higher duration on intake (224 Vs 215) and the Intake Valve Opening point (2 Vs -9 ) and 4* overlap Vs -12
>Good midrange to upper trq
>61/6200 rpm peak
>will carry well past peak to 65/6600 easy (equidistant IVO-EVC from TDC)
>4* overlap not an issue, will respond better once you add headers VS CheaTR
range 1800>6600+
Nice little lope

These are the CheaTR Valve events for comparison:

0.050
214/230
117>LSA
116>ICL


-9>IVO
43>IVC
53>EVO
-3>EVC
118>ECL
-12> Overlap

You can use 4.11s but personaly i would run 3.73 in order not to run out of gear too soon.

(whatever you decide Thunder is the way to go fo a cam to be cut)

TuffSS

iTrader: (6)

Thanks a million. I really like what I'm reading/hearing. Looks good.

Hey, just for the sake of conversation. What if a guy wanted to shift the power peak down just a hair to 6000 rpm. I'm assuming a little off the intake duration would accomplish this? With a small loss in noticeable idle. Thoughts there???? Any lobe profile that could maintain the duration just above .050" lift while making for that ever so slight peak shift.

I'll likely just stick with the above, but I am curious about any little alteration and pros/cons connected.



So, on the gears.........I kinda feel like if I put in the 4.11's that with this combo it has so much torque down low and in the middle that the 4.11's would have it revving right past useable power perhaps a little to quickly. Would be a little over geared. But then, having said that.........hey if it peeks at 6100/6200 and can rev beyond.........well maybe 4.11's might still be a viable option. Stock, I've felt like it's pretty fun with even the 3.42's and the stick, but that it could perhaps be just a little bit better of a combo with 3.73's right now. I actually grabbed the 4.11's because everyone seems to go 4.10's with the M6, and the OE 4.11's would appear a stronger set of gears. Which raises another concern with getting some 3.73's as they have smaller teeth than OE 4.11's. Any thoughts there???? And again, I realize this little 10 bolt is a grenade with the pin pulled waiting to go off.

I suppose another angle on the gear issue would be that I could go ahead and install the 4.11's, but run a 28" tall tire which would what make it like a 3.70 gear by comparison to the current short 315/35's. Wonder if a 28" tire is to much tire for the mild combo with an M6. And if I'd be risking to much tire weight being spun, and so much traction as to risk bogging on any kind of launch.

Thanks much, I'll be on the phone with Geoff / TR again, possibly as soon as tomorrow morning.

PREDATOR-Z

To bring the peak down just advance another 2* to a 112+4 LSA, that will do the trick but seing you are M6 I would keep it 112+2
The power band of this custom cam is lower than CheaTR, which is a higher reving one

Like I said you can use the gears with no issues but with more trq in low mid range they are not necessay but will work fine.

The specs for the cam
Intake lobe # 3015R
Exhaust lobe # 3726R
112 LSA
110 ICL

LSWONGTO

iTrader: (3)

This 224/232 cam seems very diiferent suprised I had never heard of it untill now.

TuffSS

iTrader: (6)

Ok, I understand.......

So, sounds like probably still enough lower rpm torqe to work with even my stock 3.42's (as an option), if I stay with a shorter 26ish inch tall tire.