Quickin

I'm sure thats what Mike Norris will do first, sounds logical. As long as the heads can be inspected and ported to the max and a cam upgrade can happen, I'll be smilin.

Can a cam be changed without pulling the motor?

I guess with a head removed you can see if there's any piston damage, right? So, if the seals in the heads are toast, what can cause them to get messed up? A tune can't do that can it?

JF WS6

The tune in of itself can't destroy valve seals, but perhaps if you car was running hotter than necessary by detonating (just because you heard it once doesn't mean that's the only time it happened) the seals may have been damaged from the excessive heat. It doesn't sound likely to me, but anything is possible I guess.

A cam swap is pretty simple, and no the motor definately does not have to be pulled to swap it. After your heads are ready to be reinstalled and a cam ready to go in a good shop should easily be able to do it in a day possibly along with a wideband tune as well.

Did you talk to anyone about another cam yet? Just curious.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

ATAP can not correctly measure A/F. Do not rely upon it.

LS1 JAY

Mike Norris just re-built my stock LS1 due to bad rings, so I know what you are going through! I would leave a blue cloud that covered both sides of the road and reached 15ft high in the air after a WOT blast! runs clean now thanks to Mike! You're in good hands with Norris, he's a good guy! I'll be back up there in a week or so tuning my car. Hope you get it all straightened out real soon!

Quickin

The detonating only happened one time, after that I drove the car like a baby. Then one quick time for the ATAP logs. The detonation was only heard/felt for 1 full second and thats it. My temp gauge has never seen the 210 mark. 95% of the time it's right on the 185 mark. If it's a Florida HOT day with the A/C on it will stabilize inbetween the 185 and 210 marks. 2 ATAP's have shown my gauge to be pretty damn accurate. This motor has never been run hot, ever!

Mike Norris is more than GOOD, so I'm set. I'll consult with Mike about the cam.
I hope it's as easy as head removal, repair/porting, a cam and a tune, that would be nice.

Quickin

Thats EXACTLY how I would describe the cloud I leave behind isn't it embarassing????
I know I'm in good hands with Mike, I'm actually quite excited to give him the car to repair

LS1 JAY

I have a video of my 12.7 pass with just macs & a lid and you should see the smoke I left behind! I even had people asking me what the heck was wrong with my car! Tell Mike that Jay with the pewter SS said hi! I'll be up there the following week so maybe I'll see your car? I'll be getting the car dyno tuned. Let me know what Mike finds out with your car.

Take care, Jay

blu00rdstr

Not N/A, but 522rwhp.

Quickin

Who's doing your tuning, Mike Norris?

Quickin

Well, I can't get an e-mail return or a call back from ARE, it's been over a month of trying now.
Obviously they've seen this post to.
And yes, I've e-mailed Wade and Barry many times.

LS1 JAY

Sounds like they need to step up and make things right with you! this is NO way to do buisness! Mike will fix you up!

Quickin

All I want to know from them is, when I go into the motor and if parts are bad will they send new parts under there 2 yr/24,000 mile warranty. We can send them the part to look at if need be.

EuG

Quickin,
I’m sorry you’re having problems, but I think you ruined a perfectly good motor due to your lack of “performance cars knowledge”

Please don’t take it the wrong way; it really sucks you ended up in this situation… Somebody should’ve educated you on these matters better….

From what I read in the past it sounds like:
You got the new motor, it was running great, made great power (up to 5000rpm), but you needed a fuel pump.
[*]Here’s your mistake #1 – YOU SHOLD’VE PARKED THE CAR RIGHT THEN!!!!

I remember it must’ve taken you months to get that pump. Not sure why – maybe not your fault, but I wouldn’t drive my car with $15K motor knowing fuel pump is not working 100%
[*]Mistake #2: you get mail order tuning from Ed Write.
Man, I can’t even begin to tell you how wrong that is…
I don’t car if Ed is GOD himself, you can’t tune cars via mail order very well. In one try?! – NO WAY.

Why would you do that when you got a good shop like Mike Norris near by?

Of course, no surprises, the car was detonation like crazy, etc
I remember you posted about detonation problems etc and everybody telling you - DON’T DRIVE IT, you’re gonna kill the motor…..[*]You’re saying you still drove it? – that would be the BIGGEST MISTAKE

Well, what else can I say

FYI:
Detonation can:[*] kill your head gaskets – this would cause coolant loss (white smoke)[*] damage your rings – this would cause excessive oil consumption (blue smoke)[*] damage you bearings[*] can even damage your pistons.

As a combination of all that – the car could be down on power.
[*]Autotap can’t show you A/F, you need widebad O2s for that.[*]if there was something wrong with the heads – the car would never make power in the first place.


I think you’re a victim of listening to too many people’s advices, some of whom may not really know much on the subject.

For future reference – if you’re not sure about something ALAWYAS CHECK WITH YOUR TUNER!!!!!!!

Ones again I’m sorry you’re having trouble….

Quickin

I appreciate your comments, I just lived and learned, now I just need to fix this mess now.

It took 2 months. The factory fuel pump worked perfectly up to 5,000 rpm, I NEVER ONCE TOOK IT OVER THAT IN THE TWO MONTHS. Honest.

Granted, a hands on dyno tune with the car in front of you is the BEST, I'm convinced Ed is damn good at what he does.

Mike wasn't doing LS1Edit yet.

The detonation happened 1 time. It happened after the fuel system went in allowing me to go WOT for the very first time. It never again happened after that because I did two things: drove it like a 90 year old man in a Vega and I drove it so my friend could ATAP once and then let it sit for a long time. I then went and put 100 octane in it to see if that would clear up the detonation at WOT, it cleared it up 100% and it ran like a monster. Perfectly smooth and sounded great.
Since this happened it was the opinion of most that oil was getting by rings at WOT in an amount that caused detonation, but with the 100 octane it cleared it up.

My oil burn problem has been since DAY ONE. I know it, Mike Norris knows it and Mike's employee knows it. I even burned about a qrt on the trip back to Mikes place to get the re-tune after the fuel system was installed. We figured since it was re-tuned I'd give it some time to see if the oil burn clears up.
NOPE.

Barely. Even Barry at ARE told me it was OK to drive, and if I hear detonation to "get out of it" right away. I had to drive the car back to Norris for a check, Barry also said the 160 mile drive was OK as long as I don't let it detonate.
So the motor builder was consulted on the driving issue.

If detonation caused some of these things, it didn't cause the rings to go bad because I've been burning massive oil since day one on the first start up of the motor.

Now, since the motor right now, today, runs perfectly smooth, idles great, accelerates great, and simply runs like normal, Except if I were to go WOT, how can my motor be damaged too badly. Sure, it may need new rings, new head gaskets, something else, but why do you say the motor is ruined??? Or do you mean it just needs to be torn down and refreshed?

I think if I had failed bearings or failed parts the motor wouldn't run or there would be some serious noise. It runs perfectly smooth at all throttle positions except WOT, where it will probably still detonate.

Your not saying that Mike Norris or any other shop won't be able to fix it are you?

EuG

I have no idea how serious the damage is (hopefully it's NOT serious at all)

You mentioned coolant loss which sounds like a blown head gasket and a very easy/quick way to ruin the motor completely (NOT saying it is ruined already)

Any good shop will be able to fix it, the question is how many new parts ($$$) will it require.

Whatever you do PLEASE don't drive it AT ALL mean while.

Don't drive like a grandma
Don't idle it
Don't even start it.


Hope you get it worked out....

Quickin

If it's trashed I'll throw it into the fuggin Atlantic and make an artificial reef out of it.

Then I'll go buy an LS6 crate motor and spray it and call it a day.

I truly feel the motor is mechanically fine, it just needs new gaskets, rings, maybe valve seals and a tune. Hoping anyway.

MattG

When you first put this motor in, didn't you put larger fuel injectors in with it as well? Did you drive it first without proper PCM tuning being done for at least the larger injectors? I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered you doing this.

If this is true, it is quite an easy explaination as to why the rings never seated properly. Larger fuel injectors with the same pulse width as stock could easily flood the hell out of the engine and wash all the oil off the cylinder walls.

If I am incorrect in my memory about this, please disregard this response.

CHRISPY

If you drove it alot without the tuning for the injectors you can easily wash the rings.

30th TA 0219

Can't say I'm enjoying your suffering Quikin, but it sure has me checking the Internal section every couple of hours. I really hope you get everything worked out!

Quickin

ARE put 36 lb injectors in when they assembled the motor. It was tuned just fine during the the 2 months I waited for my Racetronix fuel system to go in. If anything the motor ran lean at the higher rpms because of the failing factory fuel pump.
Cyclinder washing was a question but Mike Norris and Ed said it was impossible the way the PCM was set.

It's just strange that noone has yet mentioned the possibility that the rings just didn't seat properly or they weren't installed right or they are the wrong ring set. All very real possibilities, just as real as any other idea.
All the blame is on the tune, the way I drove it and/or both.

The motor ran perfect, got kick *** gas mileage, sounded great and all that good stuff for the 2 months. I drove it rather causiously because it wasn't good to go over 5,000 rpm. I think it's time to start considering a build flaw.
When the motor comes apart we'll know for sure.