Rollmaster double roller not lining up?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 755
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
Rollmaster double roller not lining up? 98 block, stock crank, TSP XS cam.
Trying to install the Rollmaster double roller timing chain (PNCS1140 or CS1160 don't know the difference between the two), and the cam bolt holes aren't lining up with the cam sprocket holes. I installed the crank sprocket with the zero on the key. I'm pretty sure that's correct. The instructions are a lil over my head.
Here are some pics. One pic I have the 0 mark on the crank sprocket in the front at 12 and in another pic I have the 0 mark in the back, just to see if it would be any easier. It wasn't:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/crank_sprocket.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/not_lining_up1.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/not_lining_up2.jpg
If ANYONE has had experience with this that would be awesome. This is making me insane.
Trying to install the Rollmaster double roller timing chain (PNCS1140 or CS1160 don't know the difference between the two), and the cam bolt holes aren't lining up with the cam sprocket holes. I installed the crank sprocket with the zero on the key. I'm pretty sure that's correct. The instructions are a lil over my head.
Here are some pics. One pic I have the 0 mark on the crank sprocket in the front at 12 and in another pic I have the 0 mark in the back, just to see if it would be any easier. It wasn't:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/crank_sprocket.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/not_lining_up1.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/not_lining_up2.jpg
If ANYONE has had experience with this that would be awesome. This is making me insane.
The keyway should line up with the zero closest to it, then the zero closest to the tooth on the crank should line up with the cam gear dot. The third picture is correct.
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/not_lining_up2.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/not_lining_up2.jpg
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Texas and Qatar
Try slightly rotating the crankshaft cw and ccw to seat the chain in the lower crank pulley. Do this while holding upward pressure on the center of the upper timing chain and it should give you the extra amount you need to line up the bolts.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 755
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
Ok, I kinda found the problem. The chain will seat perfectly around the cam sprocket, but will NOT seat perfectly around the crank sprocket. the first few chain links seat perfectly on the crank sprocket, but then they start to jut out. I think the crank sprocket is seated to far in on the crank, and the chain's thickness is interferring.
I installed the crank sprocket all the way on the crank until it hit. Is this not the correct procedure??? This is going to be hell pulling it out with a gear puller.
I installed the crank sprocket all the way on the crank until it hit. Is this not the correct procedure??? This is going to be hell pulling it out with a gear puller.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 755
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
update Sort of figured out why the chain isn't seating all the way on the crank sprocket...the chain is hitting against this part of the crank:
It looks like it's ground less on one side than the other. The chain is hitting against the raised part where the red arrow is. Should I take a angle grinder and grind it down?? Or is there some sort of crankshaft spacer I can use? Thanks again for any help/advice
It looks like it's ground less on one side than the other. The chain is hitting against the raised part where the red arrow is. Should I take a angle grinder and grind it down?? Or is there some sort of crankshaft spacer I can use? Thanks again for any help/advice
Definitely DO NOT grind the crank! That'll throw off the whole balance of the motor. I have a JP Performance double roller kit in mine part # 56157. Your crank gear end looks different than mine... maybe that has something to do with it...
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Verdad Gallardo Yeah my crank is stock. I would maybe just try another gear and sprocket. I'm really not sure why your chain would be rubbing the crank unless it's the wrong chain...maybe for a different application. I got setup from New Era Performance parts. They have an online ebay store. Look at item number 380063768932. Hope that helps you out some.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
yet another update I don't have a stock crank sprocket, but what I did was I tried to use the stock single timing chain, and the stock cam sprocket, and the double roller crank gear. Same thing, fit exactly the same as the double roller.
So then I gave LME a call (they did the machining/balancing). They were cool enough to look at these pics that I took:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com...up_raised1.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com...up_raised2.jpg
They thought it was weird, but said I could grind it/file it down so the chain would clear. Otherwise I could take it to them and they could do it but they said they'd take the crank out. They said as long as I was uber clean about the metal shavings, a file or a dremel would take care of it. Also, LME says it wouldn't affect the balancing one bit because it's in front of the engine.
I'm wondering if I should try a stock crank sprocket though...it'd probably do the same **** though, as long as the raised part of the crank is still there.
I appreciate the replies; I'm going ****** bananas.
Someone please tell me weird **** like this is part of building an engine...
So then I gave LME a call (they did the machining/balancing). They were cool enough to look at these pics that I took:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com...up_raised1.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com...up_raised2.jpg
They thought it was weird, but said I could grind it/file it down so the chain would clear. Otherwise I could take it to them and they could do it but they said they'd take the crank out. They said as long as I was uber clean about the metal shavings, a file or a dremel would take care of it. Also, LME says it wouldn't affect the balancing one bit because it's in front of the engine.
I'm wondering if I should try a stock crank sprocket though...it'd probably do the same **** though, as long as the raised part of the crank is still there.
I appreciate the replies; I'm going ****** bananas.
Someone please tell me weird **** like this is part of building an engine... Damn you demonpixel! Now I'm going to have to take my timing cover off to see what kind of clearance I have to reference it to yours 
If you can get your hands on a stock crank sprocket I would definitely start there, especially if the tooth pattern doesn't line up correctly. I'm assuming it's an incorrect crank sprocket or an incorrect chain. If you can't figure it out until Friday then I'll post some pics of mine and how close the clearances actually are between the crank and the chain.
Also, LME is correct that grinding the front of the crank won't disrupt the balance. There is almost no load on the front of the crank on an LS1 engine. All I know is that a crank definitely shouldn't require a dremel to get a part to fit right. Don't try and rush through things. That's when you will make something irreparable then have to start all over again. Just take your time and we'll hopefully get it figured out for you.
If you can get your hands on a stock crank sprocket I would definitely start there, especially if the tooth pattern doesn't line up correctly. I'm assuming it's an incorrect crank sprocket or an incorrect chain. If you can't figure it out until Friday then I'll post some pics of mine and how close the clearances actually are between the crank and the chain. Also, LME is correct that grinding the front of the crank won't disrupt the balance. There is almost no load on the front of the crank on an LS1 engine. All I know is that a crank definitely shouldn't require a dremel to get a part to fit right. Don't try and rush through things. That's when you will make something irreparable then have to start all over again. Just take your time and we'll hopefully get it figured out for you.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
pulled crank sprocket and found serious bullshit! Haha man I haven't heard that since the last time I played Gears of War! Halloran, totally appreciate the help man, but don't pull that timing cover off just yet unless the suspense is killing you!!
I pulled the crank sprocket off with a pulley remover from Autozone and took some closer pics with my camera. Just look at how chewed up and inconsistent this looks!!!:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/chewed_crank_1.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/chewed_crank_2.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/chewed_crank_3.jpg
Now I know I'm new at this but this looks COMPLETELY fubarred to me.
Well, I put the single chain on when this crank sprocket was all the way in and trust me it does NOT matter what chain you have. If it doesn't clear, it doesn't clear.
I noticed on pics of LS1 Lunati cranks that this area is totally recessed and smoothed out perfectly. I have no idea what caused this but I definitely think it's time for a Dremel.
Thoughts guys?
I pulled the crank sprocket off with a pulley remover from Autozone and took some closer pics with my camera. Just look at how chewed up and inconsistent this looks!!!:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/chewed_crank_1.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/chewed_crank_2.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/chewed_crank_3.jpg
Now I know I'm new at this but this looks COMPLETELY fubarred to me.
I noticed on pics of LS1 Lunati cranks that this area is totally recessed and smoothed out perfectly. I have no idea what caused this but I definitely think it's time for a Dremel.
Thoughts guys?
It's not a problem man. I have to do it anyway to prime my oil pump before the first start 
Edit: Here I found another good picture of a new buildup of an LS1...can't really tell but looks like the front of your crank may be different?...
Edit: Here I found another good picture of a new buildup of an LS1...can't really tell but looks like the front of your crank may be different?...
Last edited by Halloran; Sep 17, 2008 at 10:34 PM.
Just an observation.
Be sure the cam gear is seated correctly on the cam and the bolts are threaded all the way in then check the clearence between the crank and the chain.
If the large cam gear is cocked or loose the chain may ride on the crank.
Good luck .
Ryan
Be sure the cam gear is seated correctly on the cam and the bolts are threaded all the way in then check the clearence between the crank and the chain.
If the large cam gear is cocked or loose the chain may ride on the crank.
Good luck .
Ryan
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
Thanks man. The chain actually hits the crank with just the crank sprocket and chain around it. I'm going to start masking off the engine today before hitting it with an angle grinder. I thought a dremel would do but it won't fit in that tight space.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 755
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
update - covered engine front here's some pics of saran wrap, play-dough, and newspaper covering the front of the engine:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/playdoughed1.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/playdoughed2.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/playdoughed3.jpg
I figure if play-dough is good enough for checking ptv clearance it's good enough for this
gotta head outa town for the weekend so grinding will have to be next week. bleh.
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/playdoughed1.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/playdoughed2.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/playdoughed3.jpg
I figure if play-dough is good enough for checking ptv clearance it's good enough for this
gotta head outa town for the weekend so grinding will have to be next week. bleh.
One thing I can tell you about getting the cam sprocket to line up when installing a double chain is that the "DOT"s have to be lined up perfectly. If they are off even a tiny bit the sprocket won't seat on the dowel. After making a small adjustment to get the sprockets exactly at "DOT to DOT" the cam sprocket went on. I'd like to see a side view pic of the back face of the chain against the block once you have the cam sprocket mounted just to see if you still have clearance issues once everything is correctly mounted. Those pics you showed that are supposed to show crank damage show more assembly lube than anything else.